Grant Grill in US Grant Hotel Downtown

When Honkman remarks that our expectations may not be realized, since a chef may offer “a different interpretation” of a dish, I don’t think it’s entirely fair, as Ipsedixit does, to dismiss Honkman as somehow saying that dining out then becomes “a game of chance.” Clearly, Honkman is suggesting that happy or positive surprises are possible, whether involving the introduction of an unexpected ingredient or the refinement of ingredients and cooking methods which are familiar to us.

Actually, a case can be made that “chance,” to some extent, is always lurking when we dine out; even when I have visited restaurants that you’ve recommended, Ipsedixit, which I have many times, with some anticipation of what I was likely to eat, vague as that may have been, I’ve often been surprised, most often favorably. But that doesn’t mean that eating out is like going to a casino!

The problem with the Grant Grill was, perhaps, linked to expectations: such a nice place, so carefully appointed, and with such considerate service, surely the food would match in quality. Sadly, on the whole, it didn’t. I agree with the view expressed on this topic that, especially those of us who cook at home, are looking to be “surprised” when we dine out, we’re looking for something that we haven’t been able to do at home because we lack the ingredients, the technology, the experience (refinement) or the ideas – or all of these! It’s not that we’re competing with the chefs whose work we enjoy, but our own work in the kitchen, crude as it may be, heightens our appreciation of theirs; and the money we spend on such food doesn’t exhaust our gratitude for it, either.

Maybe all this is a quibble, but the issue (at least as I see it) – sometimes clearly expressed, sometimes not, – is that of creativity in the preparation and presentation of food. What is it, creativity in food? In a sense, I think, that was what the iceberg vs romaine lettuce dispute was about.

In any case, though I wasn’t happily surprised by the food at the Grant, I have been by the interesting and provocative discussion on the topic.

If the menu describes the item, i.e. a wedge salad made with romaine lettuce, I’m OK. If it doesn’t, that’s a surprise I will not like.

I concur…
If it says ‘wedge’ and what shows up is some lame ass spring mix, that salad is going back.

I’ve had baby romaine hearts as a wedge in Anacapri this summer with fresh grilled anchovies, fresh parm reggianno with a creamy lemon vinaigrette, it was heaven…

This is another one of our language arguments that nobody realizes is a language argument.

“Wedge” implies that it is a chunk of lettuce the diner cuts. Having a “wedge salad” made from a lettuce mix is an oxymoron.

cstr: I like it most of restaurants describe their dishes but just stating (one or just a few) key ingredients and leave it to your imagination how they may come out as a dish.

besaunders: A “wedge” implies a chunk of lettuce but if the chef is really good I would prefer if it comes out quite different (obviously just exchanging a chunk of lettuce with lettuce mix has nothing to do with creativity). There are for example often some excellent “deconstructed” desserts which might have “classical” names, e.g. apple pie, but have as the final dish little to do with the classical interpretation and are often much better.

Isn’t every restaurant choice a game of chance ?

Well, if you want to get philosophical about it, life is a game of chance.

But then that’s not what we’re talking about.

If I go to a traditional steakhouse, and order up a wedge salad, I better get a big hunk of iceberg lettuce, and thick gooey Ranch Dressing that would make Roto Rooter faint of heart.

But if I go to Alinea, and order up a wedge salad, I better not get a big of hunk of iceberg lettuce, and anything resembling traditional Ranch dressing.

If a restaurant does not match my expectations, it’s either a me problem or a them problem. But it’s a problem nonetheless.

Yes, if the description is a bit faint, I’ll ask the server to explain, if they already haven’t. Thank goodness I got an advanced degree to be able to think of asking questions

As ipse states, if I’m in a traditional (enter FN to contest traditional va authentic) chophouse a wedge better have a nice chunk of fresh crisp iceberg, an abundant portion of thick chunky heart stopping blue cheese dressing and real thick cut crisp bacon bits, with a few healthy adornments of sliced cukes and a few cherry tomatoes. Oh, lots of cracked pepper please!

I am aware that we are most likely different than 99.9% of the regular restaurant customers but we would go more often to a “traditional chophouse” (or any other style of “traditional” restaurant) if they would surprise us with something new instead of the same old, boring stuff (which one makes most of the time much better at home).
(And why asking the server about any dishes - there is nothing more annoying to hear other tables asking tons of questions about every dish and how it is made and if it would be possible to substitute this ingredient with something else or if they could leave out that ingredient or serve this sauce on the side etc.)

For example; if I go to a chophouse, I have certain expectations. If the menu gave a brief but informative description, which most good restaurants have, I’ll order without any reservations. If I were somewhere new or with a different cuisine and if the menu were not descriptive enough, I’ll ask before getting something I may regret. If I did not do that, and then complained and ranted about it on say the Y site, I would probably have received advise, in various posts, about why didn’t you ask the server or the MOD.

It just makes sense, you know the expression…buyer beware.

I guess that’s where we order different - in the same situation we would never ask but just order what sounds interesting (and obviously won’t complain afterwards if something was different than expected). At least for us that is part of the fun to go to any restaurant (and why we like particular tasting menus)

So, let’s say you’re not a native Enlgish speaker from Mexico, and you order the “Sweetbreads” on the menu, thinking you’ll get something along the lines of conchas.

Instead of bread, you get a plate of internal organs, cooked perfectly by the way.

Perhaps that’s the kind of elemental surprise you enjoy when dining out, but not me.

There’s a time and place to sit back and leave your expectations on the sideline and surrender to the whims of the chef (a typical omakase or meal at Alinea come to mind) but if I’m at a steakhouse or an ethnic restaurant and come across a menu item that intrigues, hell ya, I’m going to inquire about it.

A server, despite the nomenclature, is not just there to bring you your food. Part of a good service is to ensure the client, or dinner guest, is comfortable and well-informed. And a two-way dialogue is important to that.

OT but if you are on vacation/business trip in a foreign country it is the visitors responsibility to make sure to know some basic language terms (including food/dishes words)

Many people who live in the US have no idea “sweetbreads” are the thymus glands of certain hooved creatures, or that head cheese is anything but a dairy product.

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And the problem is…? Do we have to spell out/explain everything everywhere ? Many people don’t know what most dishes are in ethnic restaurant even with descriptions - just try that damn new dish, you won’t die from it - most likely it will be a good new experience.

Tell that to Pliummie when she orders something similar to the name sweet breads thinking it’s a wonderful breakfast basket full of treats and it ends up being a plate of glands. She won’t die from it, but I bet she’ll be hurling her guts thanking you for the intriguing experience.

I don’t think it is at all related to ordering different, just ordering with an understanding of what’s in the dish.

I bet she would like it when she doesn’t know what it is

I actually imagined head cheese contained brains for some odd reason, so when I discovered it was just pieces of cheek, snout, and such I was far more willing to try it.