that’s an argument that I’m not making.
Should an unskilled person make the same as a highly skilled one? (Don’t get me wrong. I think this is a big problem but I just don’t know how it can be dealt with.)
Nope, and I’d love to hear who you consider skilled in this situation.
Servers are the only ones who benefit from tips. It’s the other employees who may get a better deal with service charges.
Of course. Give them equal wages. And let the servers and bartenders get tips. Myself I can never see sitting at a bar and not tipping my bartender . Maybe a handshake will do and say good job to your server and see how the service goes next time around. I had employees. I paid them well. Maybe the restaurant owners can do the same if they’re worried about losing the back of the house. I think it falls in the hands of the owner to pay the worker. I will continue to tip.
Outside the US service is frequently “included” and one may round up or some such.
Totally agree. You’ve been all over the world cat. I can’t see any of this working but shorting the workers out of what they’re owed and lining the pockets of the business owners. Again, pay the workers what they’re worth. that’s what I was brought up on through my family. if people are really compelled on this tipping thing get up walk to the back of the house and tip them personally. I think they’d really enjoy that. If you hate your job and it sucks move on. My two cents.
YOUR two cents is worth at least twelve But really. I don’t see an easy answer.
Regarding “unskilled” vs. “skilled,” I was inaccurate but dont know what else to say. Should a dishwasher make the same as a skilled server even though both bring to the event?
I’m sorry. I’m stressed tonight and just not wanting to try to express myself very well.
This is one of those cases in which people just can’t see past “common sense.”
The problem with this, of course, is that reality is far more complicated.
There are a number of legal issues that limit what restaurateurs can do to deal with wage inequity. Many “simple” solutions are outright illegal. In other cases, due to the way leases are structured or how taxes are determined, simply increasing the wages of BOH staff would cause overall prices to balloon considerably. Simply increasing prices creates more problems because not only does it impact sales, now you have a number of entities that get a cut of that new money generated.
The root of nearly all this madness is seemingly twofold: a healthcare system that has inequity baked into it and an adherence to a tipping culture that, at its origin, is a really just an exploitation of a power dynamic.
Nearly every one of these real world points are raised each time this discussion is had. And, as a group, these complicating factors are totally ignored or dismissed out of hand precisely because they accurately describe the muddy waters.
People want simple solutions that simultaneously play to their own sense of fairness and that don’t diminish any power they currently enjoy. Even if those simple solutions paper over real world complexities.
I say all this knowing that I might do as well screaming for the tide to change directions.
I totally and completely agree with you. In my lifetime - limited as that is - I don’t see a solution. In a perfect world, what would you do?
Perfect world? WYSIWYG pricing, possibly with a service charge baked in so restaurateurs can deliver funds as directly to staff as possible without a cut going to landlords (or possibly even taxes).
I accept I’m most likely off-base, but it’s not as though other countries and cultures haven’t figured this out. Just adopt the Japanese or Australian or European model. (Though our tourism to those places has already started poisoning their system). We have models to choose from.
Where tipping isn’t allowed or isn’t customary, business owners have to pay enough to attract and retain employees.
It’s no more of a problem in restaurants and bars than it is in any other business. No one thinks its weird not to tip a pharmacist, dry cleaner, or auto parts store clerk.
I like this from Yayoi, up in Palo Alto:
"No tipping policy
Our prices include a service charge so that staff are fairly compensated. We want you to relax after your meal at Yayoi, not do math. Any tips or gratuity left will be donated to local charities."
I don’t mind if service charges are included. Though, I get from a business competition point of view why restaurants would not want to roll it all into the price, because not everyone is doing it at he same time.
edit: I just came back from Yayoi. Service was very good. Polite, efficient, and heck - I even questioned the size of my 1.5x order of unagi don and they quickly replaced it with the appropriate portion, with apologies twice. They even use Square, but there is no room to leave any extra tip - no extra “screen to complete.” Though Yayoi rolls service into their prices, service has not suffered. I liked that.
On some other restaurants (NOT YAYOI)
What I HATE is when some restaurants leave it ambiguous - and just say “a 20% charge will be added to your bill,” and when asked about it, will not say it’s in lieu of gratuity or service. THEN, they leave an additional tip line, without explanation.
Once, I had a reservation at 5:30pm. The restaurant called me the day before and asked to move me to 4:45pm…ok. I was rushed out in 45 minutes (I had to linger with tea to make it 45 minutes) for a $185 meal out the door. They tried to sell me a bottle of Krug for just me, a solo diner. I like Krug but I’m not going to pay $300+ for a bottle at 4:45pm. At the end, a 20% service charge was added, and the server announced with the check “everything is included.” When I opened the bill, there was a handwritten note next to the additional tip line, “ADDITIONAL ONLY, PLEASE.” WTF was that.
I don’t mind paying gratuity, even the 3-4% health care surcharge, taxed, etc. It’s fine, it’s part of the cost of dining out, whatever - just make it extremely clear and don’t try to mislead me. It’s the feeling of trying to recharacterize this stuff that irks me.
This. Maybe it’s because I’ve been fortunate to spend time in other parts of the world (South and SE Asia), and tipping is not expected there. Good service is expected as part of the overall service. In some countries, if you tip, it’s considered an insult of sorts because you are implying they will not treat you well if you don’t tip them. It follows the WYSIWYG concept @frommtron mentions. You buy a $4 bowl of noodles, you pay $4, they bring it to you, you eat and leave, and they bus your table. There’s no extra “hey, thank you for bringing me my food so here’s an extra dollar” “or thank you for picking up my bowl and dirty napkin, here’s a buck”. Same with taxi drivers – you don’t tip taxi drivers. If you give them $40 for a $35 ride, they will give you back $5 in change. My friend once went on a SE Asia solo trip and left some money on her pillow when she checked out of the hotel where she was staying for that leg. They credited back her credit card for the amount she left.
Most countries don’t have tipping customs – there are very few that do. The no-tipping system works in dozens of other countries, which is why I don’t understand why the US (and even Canada) are so reluctant to follow suit. Everyone says it won’t work, but there are plenty of examples out in the world showing it does work, and works well.
that would be awesome, tipping your pharmacist so they hook you up next time.
having a >17% service charge and also having a tip line should be a crime punishable by drawing and quartering.
You’re better off tipping the doctor (which, now that I think of it, is a grand, grand idea)…
I did a little search and the list of countries that don’t tip is all over the place. Something like seven to 20. Go figure. And in places there’s a 10% added but it’s fine to add another 5%. I don’t think its straightforward at all.
I’m sure this has been addressed some how somewhere on this board, but I haven’t got all day. Do you folks tip the same for delivery service as in restaurants? If not, what’s your limit?
I tip pretty much the same as I do in restaurants. They don’t get paid much, either, and I think there’s more time (if not effort) involved in what those drivers do. I’ll also tip extra for not having to go out in bad weather.