Right. What happens to this whole conversation when the marginalizing voices are coming from WITHIN your own culture?
That’s pretty much how I feel about this, too. 
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ask andy ricker; his pok pok la is not making the kind of money envisioned because he’s priced higher than customers are willing to pay. i think someone posted a link to the article about it in this thread.
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maybe for low end fried rice, but i recall la ruinas in pasadena and back in some chowhound thread someone described the fare as being peasant food made by people using better quality ingredients which was a large part of the appeal.
to me, stuff in the street food category - which seems to be where a lot of this fusion/assimilation seems to be taking place - should be fairly inexpensive reflecting the humble ingredients as well as the source of the demand for it - folks who don’t have a lot of disposable income. it SHOULD taste better with less effort if you use higher quality ingredients or more up to date technology, what have you - i mean sous vide taco meat?, but personally i value the skill/creativity required to take less palatable/lower quality ingredients and still create something tasty with it. some have other criterion.
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So many interesting things have been said since I’ve wandered away . . .
Just to be clear, I’ve avoided stating that a particular cuisine would be elevated were it to be married to French techniques and preparations. I take you point to be that within a particular culture that produced a cuisine that people of that culture might view that marriage as elevation. That may be true for some. But I think the larger point is that the dominant culture in the US in particular would also by default view that marriage as an elevation that even legitimates that cuisine. That can be frustrating for those whose culture is being represented (or appropriated depending on one’s view).
This is the rub. Let’s take pho for example. In many cities, pho is present but not as ubiquitous. What happens when a “white dude” starts slinging his version of traditional pho and is incredibly successful? Let’s say he garners interviews and gains exposure all of which leads to financial growth and expansion. In fact, it even leads to a certain degree of authority. As a Vietnamese person, that might be hard to deal with. Why is it that it took a white dude who is a privileged member of the dominant culture to bring legitimacy to this food?
Possibly. But I’m not sure we can do that. Nor am I sure that people want an element that is central to their sense of self and sense of heritage( cuisine) to be stripped of that very heritage. Is that not also a form of cultural hegemony?
Better ingredients, all things being equal, make for better food. But here’s something kind of interesting: most asian vegetables are actually grown following organic practices. They just aren’t certified. They are also usually incredibly fresh. Most of the greens that I buy at 99 ranch are super fresh. But I agree that I would pay more all around if higher quality produce, and in particular, meats were used.
I think your view that this was a win for Mexican cuisine and culture is shared by many Mexicans. I also think many Mexican chefs are chaffing a bit because they know they are every bit as talented as Rick Bayless but they haven’t been able to get traction for their restaurants like Bayless, as white a dude as there ever was, has been able to get. Is that something we can even play a role in? I have no idea. I know I’m not going to avoid a great restaurant because the chef du cuisine isn’t from the right culture.
My thoughts on this issue really aren’t crystallized because I just don’t know enough about the cultural dynamics at play. I’m really appreciating the discussion, though.
My position right now is really just one of empathy towards people who are calling out what they see as cultural appropriation. I certainly don’t have the answers. But I do tend to look at these “white dude” places with a little suspicion. And yet if those places are good I’m eating there often and probably paying extra to do so.
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[quote=“paranoidgarliclover, post:42, topic:4931”]
Right. What happens to this whole conversation when the marginalizing voices are coming from WITHIN your own culture?
[/quote]That right there could be a whole round table discussion with different cultures coming together to talk about the messages they received growing up in their own community.
[quote=“secretasianman, post:44, topic:4931”]
i value the skill/creativity required to take less palatable/lower quality ingredients and still create something tasty with it.
[/quote]Very good. You just described peasant, street, soul - insert your noun - food in a nutshell. The food was made with more spices, sauces, creativity, and yes, skill as a necessity. To hide the inferior quality of the ingredients. It’s also what makes it taste great. Here comes the opportunist. They see upper middle-class food seekers going into these neighborhoods to eat the food. They think, why not open on Beverly & La Cienega. Then they take it a step further and use organics and free-range to attract the squeamish eaters like me.
There is so much cool stuff in your post. I’m going to read again later and discuss. I’ve been playing around long enough hahaha.
At the end of the day, it’s about what the customers are willing to eat and what they are willing to pay for it. Most customers won’t see it as a power or marginalization issue.
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That’s largely true.
But . . . check out the brouhaha surrounding a Bon Appetite piece on pho from late 2016. I don’t think the chef deserved the shit storm that developed from that piece, but it does look like his business suffered from the tone deaf Bon Appetite exposure.
In some instances, what people are willing to eat might just be influenced by who is cooking what food.
Movies are also dealing with some distantly related issues. I know a few friends who refused to see Dr. Strange because of perceived whitewashing.
Just saying these feelings and their economic consequences are real. Though as you indicate, the consequences seem small.
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maybe i didn’t express myself well. what i think i’m trying to say is at some level, food is food, no matter where
it is from.
sort of the opposite of cultural hegemony; since no culture is intrinsically “better” than any other culture, no “ethnic food”
is “better” than any other. hence, french food is no “better” than guatemalan food, therefore one can equally elevate the other, or not.
given the current cultural climate, where science and facts seem to have…lost something, i think some cling to arguments of which cuisine is “superior” because they cannot really be proven. thus, the advocate can’t be wrong.
i’m also taking the cowardly way, and stepping out of this discussion as a participant, as i sense – hopefully, i’m incorrect – we’re veering into “cultural appropriation” territory, and that’s something i’d rather not discuss here.
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People pay the same at Night Market and that’s made by a Thai chef…
and they’re paying night market prices, NOT chinatown prices. read the article is you didn’t. re-read it if you did.
What you said makes no sense. A restaurant’s prices don’t compare to a regions but Chinatown is not a super expensive area. Maybe location is what matters then. Night Market opened in WeHo and Silver Lake. Ricker charging WeHo prices in Chinatown maybe not the best move huh?
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yup.
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I truly don’t get what he was thinking with almost any aspect of that opening.
Eddie Huang basically told [people like me] to go fuck themselves. 
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His article couldn’t be more stupid . Way to go Eddie .
Eddie didn’t write the article; his speech is linked.
Thanks for straightening me out . Any way listened in . Still not impressed by what his views are . Maybe just another disgruntled Clinton backer .
And there goes this thread . . .
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