Jordan Kahn's new restaurant Vespertine - Spring 2017 / Culver City


"My brains just feel scrambled. I can’t wrap my head around it. But I feel quite unsure of myself."
This comment/review on Yelp was removed. Fake news?


Congratulations, this is what shows up when you google vespertine:


what a witty way to throw some subtle shade. :smirk:


Is it douchier to prohibit photos or to ignore it, take unauthorized photos, post them on yelp, and also plug your instagram?


I’m taking a damn photo if i feel like taking a photo.


Jackass move on that yelper’s part…


Hey isn’t endoedibles a Las Vegas Chowhound?


Yes and he’s also an “elite” yelper so the rules don’t apply to him.


Yeah I looked up Dr. Uzmann online just now… Whatevs.

I guess abiding by house rules is consider optional etiquette nowadays.


is that from the restaurant or a centerfold from a vintage copy of hustler?


The latter. If the restaurant prohibits photos and cell phones, don’t take and then post photos. It’s kind of a dumb rule, in my opinion, but it’s their house rules and I’m pretty sure they are explicit about that going in and diners are well aware of it beforehand. Maybe the restaurant does not want pictures taken out of context, because a meal there is supposed to be a multi-sensory immersive experience or perhaps simply because the restaurant has its own gravity and self-proclaimed mythology.

Also, for the record, I am not Brad F. on Yelp.

I’m not going any time soon, but man, that chocolate cracker on a paper plate showing up on their Google search is pretty brutal…


I assume it’s this. It seems like the construction/architecture of the dish is as important (if not more so) than the taste. 2-D photos may not convey that very well, and maybe Kahn also wants to surprise/delight customers w/ the presentation. Taking + posting photos kind of ruins that.

Agreed, but it’s also super funny. @J_L wasn’t joking when he mentioned the power of FTC in another thread… Preach, brotha!


It could also be the chef wants diners to enter the dining experience with fresh eyes and no preconceptions. I have no dog in this fight and am not attracted to this type of eating (heathen me), but I can appreciate the chef putting this kind of effort into the vision he has and the experience he’s trying to create. As the saying goes, “you only have one chance to make a first impression.”


Right, he’s reaching to make the dishes appear literally otherworldly. I imagine the surprise is that the dishes look estranging but the flavors are somehow uncanny. The whole “artifacts from gothic Annunaki” thing doesn’t sound too appetizing to me, but I get that the whole enterprise is really about the presentation, narrative, and mythology. Perhaps the food is good, too, but it doesn’t look much like real food. I guess that’s the point - no points of worldly reference - and he’s worked very hard to craft that as part of the whole experience, so if I ever did go, I would respect the no-photo rule.

Case in point - the Yelp pictures don’t make the dishes look too interesting, or much like edible food, even. Not in the “ugly delicious” style in which David Chang is interested or the deceptively simple and/or “natural” plating that Bo Bech does at GEIST (which always catches my attention - look at #thisisgeist) - but the courses at Vespertine seem alienating, not inviting.

But Romanesco broccoli is an almost shoe-in next season.

It is funny, but I also imagine that it must be kind of annoying to them. Parody is fun and all, but it might be the first thing a potential diner sees when he or she Googles the business!


Look, I respect you and (more often than not) agree with you on many food matters on this board, but… Those opinions (and yes, they are your opinions) represent a lot of extrapolation from someone who hasn’t actually been there. A photo may speak a thousand words, but 3D can change perceptions altogether.


I just realized that is from my/your FTC posts. How funny!


I’m saying that the food doesn’t read well in photos, and that 1) I would respect the no-photo policy, and 2) that the courses appear estranging seems consistent with the narrative they’ve put forth. I have not eaten there, but it’s quite clear the intent is for the food to not have much sense of familiarity, at least on paper. To that end, the food does not appear all that appetizing, not only because it’s shrouded in mystery, but also more importantly because it is designed to not have much of a culinary reference point; it’s hard for me to imagine, for the most part, what deliciousness might be hiding underneath. It’s kind of the opposite of “that sounds or looks really good” when one hears about a dish; it’s more “what is that?” but that’s ostensibly the point. I used GEIST as a comparison, because while I have also not been there yet, the plating is deceptive yet it’s easy to imagine how and why the flavors work.

The point being that Vespertine is probably best experienced without preconceptions - like watching a movie without seeing the trailer first. One kind of has to give himself or herself over to Jordan Kanh’s vision. The results might be fantastic; I don’t know. If enough valuable voices are saying that Vespertine delivers on its promise - and I value your input and reports - I may have to bite the bullet and experience it for myself. I’m a bit hard to convince and I’m quick, perhaps a bit too quick, to think about my pretty dismal meal at Red Medicine. The problem wasn’t a lack of kitchen talent but rather a preoccupation with style over substance, at least to my and my party’s tastes. And Vespertine’s raison d’etre seems to be about doing things differently in an unfamiliar way, with a very specific, calculated style complete with a narrative. I understand that Vespertine may be a different beast than Red Medicine altogether, chefs improve, or perhaps Jordan Kanh’s cooking is simply not my kind of food, which is fine. There’s so many other restaurants in LA that I’d like to visit in the meantime that it might be a while before I find out for myself what Vespertine has to offer. If I do visit, I’ll be taking notes, but not pictures.


this may not be possible in l’age du interwebs, he said whilst shaking his fist at some punks on his lawn.


I can understand yours (and other people’s) apprehensions about entering into contract with Vespertine, given their history with Red Medicine. Towards the end of Red Med’s run, I also suffered some pretty blah meals there. And to be fair, I too was on Team Snark when Vespertine was initially announced.

The rules said nothing about taking notes, so I took copious notes. Tons of notes (just in case a longer future writeup is warranted). Heck - I’m still trying to decipher my own notes. There are some vocabulary words I didn’t even know I possessed in my lexicon. Must have been those hallucinogens (or smart pills?) they slipped in my non-alcoholic infusions at Vespertine… hehehe

Well, back to listening to Bjork on repeat (an inexorable pull to that artist since the meal - strange…) :stuck_out_tongue:


The envy in this thread grows stronger.