It looks like he deleted the post, so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and hope he didn’t mean what he said. I’ll let him address this out of respect.
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I spoke too rashly, but I was commenting with information that’s not publicy known either so it was in poor taste.
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Still no word from the deputy food editor?
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Spoiler - he signed a non disparagement agreement.
Yikes. This is really quite the podcast.
Fear of losing your job could certainly make you feel insecure. Calling that “unsafe” seems wrong to me. When you’re working for an American corporation, your job’s never safe, particularly in a declining industry, or in a money-losing operation funded by a billionaire who can pull the plug at any time.
I don’t think I’ve heard anyone much over 40 phrase describe problems in a white-collar environment in terms of their expectations of safety not being met.
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At what point in the show is that segment?
I think we’re getting into a conversation about semantics here. No, being humiliated, shamed, and feeling that your existential existence is in jeopardy doesn’t result in an OSHA violation and thus isn’t physically unsafe. However, for many (myself included), the emotional is just as important as the physical, and thus a work environment in which you feel emotionally violated is validly described, IMHO, as being “unsafe.”
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wrong episode. it’s not on the ringer’s website yet for some reason.
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Personal definitions and experiences should never invalidate how others feel about safety.
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Peterson’s a good writer. He should be able to express himself clearly, precisely, and unambiguously. Did he really feel unsafe in Zoom meetings with his asshole boss? That would require a lack of agency that seems implausible to me given the entrepreneurial drive and independence shown in his career arc.
I suspect you are being willfully obtuse. The concept of ‘safety’ refers to a lot of things in a workplace, especially in modern times, that go beyond literal physical jeopardy or danger to your paycheck.
Safety from verbal abuse, safety from harassment, safety from unnecessary punishment, safety to express yourself, the safety to grow and learn and make some mistakes, the safety to try unusual things, the safety to speak without fear of reprisal, safety from being publicly berated or drawn down for little reason, the list goes on.
The choice of the word was fine and right, and it’s not your place to tell him how and what he felt, or how to express that. And honestly, why are you locked in on this one word anyway? Even if you think it was wrong - take a look at the broader picture. Everyone on staff there apparently felt this way. People were harassed into leaving. Everyone was miserable. That’s not a healthy, productive, or safe working situation.
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I don’t know anything about Peterson or his writing but, since you yourself describe him as a good writer, why not take him at his printed word? ::shrug::
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No, “unsafe” is about the mental and emotional trauma from working in an abusive and hostile working environment. It takes a toll on you to the point it affects your ability to perform in a job interview for somewhere else. The constant beating-down kills your self-confidence. Once you quit or are fired, you need to enlist the help of mental health counselors and therapists before you can pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and start applying to new jobs. OH WAIT you just lost or left your job? Bye-bye health insurance!
It’s very, very easy to spiral downwards after being in such a situation – if you have trauma from the abusive workplace experience, maybe even rising to the level of PTSD, how are you going to get another job? Your affect will be “off” and it’ll be even harder to put on the enthusiastic, go-getter performance art piece known as “the successful job candidate interview.” If you can’t get another job, how will you get the bills paid? And we still haven’t figured out how to address and move past the trauma with a qualified therapist yet!
That’s why it feels “unsafe” because it is – being in this kind of environment negatively affects so many parts of your life, and they all kind of cascade downwards together. Declining mental health also causes negative changes to one’s physical health, accelerates aging, etc.
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Is domestic abuse not an abuse if it’s not physical? Mental abuse can just as easily make someone feel insecure and unsafe.
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I’m sure it felt wrong to Peter too
What a grim, grubby person you are. What purpose does this comment serve? You’re smart enough to know this is willfully obtuse.
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@robert, I think you are latching onto the recent trend to use the word “safe” in instances like this. Your disagreement with with LKP’s account is semantic, not substantive.
Language evolves. Cool. Rad. Woke. Lit. Fly. Sick. Safe spaces. Accept the word/phrase for its evolved definition and application in this context or fight in vain against the evolution of language.
If you want to spend energy on a more meaningful battle in semantics, ask yourself why you repeatedly referred to “fucking looters” and not once “fucking abusive police” in recent posts. In that case, I found your language to be asymmetrical and indicative of deeper-seated values. (If you did refer to abusive police evenly, I am happy to be corrected and will rescind this judgment.)
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What really is your point? You think people meeting virtually can’t feel unsafe? Bravo!!!
Hopefully the copious amount of comments from people on this board that opine the contrary have changed your mind a little bit. Or you can keep on parsing people’s words to fit your worldview for the rest of time, sounds like a horrible way to live IMO.
Again a little empathy goes a long way, read their comments (there’s lots) and just picture being in their situation. If you still feel the need to parse their words and tell them that their feelings don’t count or are unwarranted a little self examination might be required.
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While I don’t agree with Roberts point of view. I do think the piling on is a bit much. Consider that even in this internet age we weren’t there and there is plenty we don’t know about what happened.
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