Sake, How do you choose?

Excellent, thank you. But I believe you made one minor (albeit important) typo, when you cut-and-pasted your definitions.

I believe Junmai daiginjo means at least 50% has been milled away but it does not contain any added brewers’ alcohol.

Yes, I did make an error when cutting and pasting. It’s 50% indeed for junmai daiginjo. Thanks and fixed.

In addition to what Mark just posted which is a great primer BTW, there are some youtube videos you can watch on sake. A fun one is the “Begin Japanology” series (NHK), search for the episode called Sake (and once you are done there are tons of great episodes on other topics from Yoshoku to Cafes to Izakaya and of course sushi). The host Peter Barakan (and the way the episodes flow and are produced) explains things very easy to understand and talks to the folks behind the food and culture.

After that there are a series of videos on sake, particularly clips featuring the owner of True Sake San Francisco who is a master sake sommelier, Beau Timken (just search for Beau Timken and go through the clips, super informative). He will even advocate for the pairing of western food, including cheese, with sake.

There are other types of sake rice, perhaps not as famous, but are well regarded from their place of origin and sake manufacture, e.g. Iwai - native to Kyoto area and used by the local breweries. This could be a fairly recent phenomenon (less than 30 years) as Iwai rice wasn’t used for sake brewing before from what I understand.

There is also a cross bred rice of Gohyakumangoku and Yamada Nishiki, a hybrid called Koshi Tanrei, developed in Niigata and used for brewing a good chunk of the Niigata premium sakes and high end competition line of Daiginjo (Niigata), a few I had the pleasure of trying and found extremely enjoyable (and expensive). This hybrid came about as a result of Gohyakumangoku cracking easily when polished too much. Yamada Nishiki is more resilient to polishing below 40%+ overall and retains ideal integrity after steaming (as part of sake production).

Let me add a few more to the list of great sakes I’ve had the chance to try recently and recommend. Random pictures pulled from the interwebz

Kakurei Junmai Daiginjo - This is the top of the line bottle from Kakurei (Niigata Prefecture). The packaging is freaking gorgeous, a beautiful wooden box. Black bottle with white labeling, with kanji calligraphy of Kakurei done in the classic style. This is obviously sake competition class and it shows. Wonderfully aromatic and such a classy sake done right. Kakurei Daiginjo and Junmai Ginjo may be great sakes, but this JD takes it to a whole new level. The Daiginjo version (a pretty blue bottle with a clear logo of the stork) is a lot more affordable in comparison, and is a great performer at its price point.

Tsukinokatsura Heiankyo - From the makers of Gekkeikan. Heiankyo is the Junmai Daiginjo of the Tsukinokatsura lineup, and for the price ($40 to $80+) it is a wonderful sake. The rice is polished to 50% and is local to the Kyoto region (Iwai) which is supposedly the highest quality rice for sake. It is a touch fruit forward in a wonderful way, but the process going down is smooth and deliciously velvety. This is a dangerously wonderful sake, in that it drinks like pristine clean water (almost and in some ways more so than some of the other sakes I’ve had). Far superior to even most of the Dassai sakes (though I have never tasted Beyond, too rich for my blood).

Denshin First Class - limited edition Junmai Daiginjo sake, in a gold colored box with red lettering (kanji). Packed to impress! Deliciously sexy black bottle as well. Quickly rose to the top of my all time favorites and very limited/not easy to find. Wonderfully smooth and perhaps more sexy and dangerous than the Heiankyo. The rice is polished to 30%. The lower end of the lineups are equally interesting, e.g. Denshin Rin (supposedly uses a unique kind of rice to brew this), Denshin Yuki (snow) is supposed to be a popular seller and quite affordable within the $30s…then there are also the seasonal colored bottles that look just as pretty.

Senshin Jumai Daiginjo - Mark already mentioned this bottle above and I agree, it’s a brilliant sake. Very masculine like, and I really like the dryness going down. Polished to 28% (like Tokugetsu) and from the same brewery (Asahi Shuzo / makers of Kubota), but also aged for a year. I want to say I like Tokugetsu a bit more, but cannot understate this sake’s potency and iconic status from the brewery. Both have very similar SMV and Acidity values, but in the end numbers don’t mean anything and is really up to your personal tastes.

Akitabare Suirakuten Daiginjo - best served chilled, and translates to “Heaven of Tipsy Delight”. Surprisingly feminine in nature, super easy to drink and like with wonderful floral like properties (a signature of some Akita prefecture sakes perhaps? Like Cho Kai San?). Well this is better than Cho Kai San! Very smooth going down, gentle and fruit forward in a pleasant way. I believe this is aged in the bottle for a year or two, but you couldn’t tell. I have yet to try it but supposedly this (and Cho Kai San) are wonderful with raw oysters.

Kirinzan “Kagayaki” Daiginjo - quite pricey for this highest end sake from Kirinzan. The packaging is interesting, a thick cardboard cylinder that houses a bottle with an orange label. The flavor profile is similar to the Ichishima Competition Daiginjo (Ginnoyorokobi) but has more floral and a very faint hint of citrus properties (not as sharp as Kirinzan Junmai Daiginjo, a beautiful blue bottle). Polish ratio for Kirinzan Daiginjo is 40%, whereas Ginnoyorokobi is 35%, both are brewed with Koshitanrei rice (hybrid rice of Yamada Nishiki and Gohyaku Mangoku). This is an example of a brewer’s lineup where the Daiginjo is far pricier than their Junmai Daiginjo.

@beefnoguy Continuing topic from LA Raku thread.

Thanks for directing me to this post. Terrific info.

  1. what do you plan on eating/enjoying the sake with? -
    Whatever pairs best with Sake, I’m open to sourcing ingredients or preparing dishes to pair with recommended Sake.

  2. what other sakes have you tried that you like? -
    Really don’t remember any particular names.

  3. what is it about those sakes you particularly enjoy?
    I enjoyed the floral flavors in the past, then again my experience is limited. Open to expanding my horizons

Sake list of a few retailers convenient to me.

  1. Wine House

  2. Woodland Hills Wine

  3. K&L

  4. Wallys

  5. Westside - LA Nijiya and Mitsuwa are relatively close to me too.

Thanks!

From my recent trip photos: West LA Mitsuwa:

Otokoyama Junmai Daiginjo - $120.99
Suehiro “Ken” Daiginjo - $59.99
Kubota Manju - $72.99 (Marukai $69.98)

You can look up those and others at www.truesake.com for their tasting notes to give you an idea. Kubota is a very tried and true sake that’s offered almost everywhere (maybe more the neighborhood places), kind of like “your grandfather’s sake” as I see many older Japanese expat males flocking to the Manju even though there are tons of choices out there. “Ken” Daiginjo is excellent with grilled food, sashimi, and the like and probably can go with many other things. Otokoyama “Man’s Mountain” is another old timer brand name from Hokkaido, but the Junmai Daiginjo top of the line is harder to come by…haven’t had it but it’s supposed to be really really good.

From K&L, stick with

Ginga Shizuku
Chokaisan (put in order online, have them ship to Hollywood from NorCal, fantastic bottle at $50)

(Wine House has the Born Dreams Come True at $220, that’s probably the lowest retail in town? Whenever you feel you are ready for this.)

For something really nice near your price range, Dassai 23 ($89.98 at Marukai, not sure about other places) is another great and very accessible sake to try if you haven’t yet. Dassai 50 runs about $30, and Dassai 39 around the $50 mark. If you are looking to expand your horizons definitely try all three, just to have a benchmark.

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@beefnoguy

Awesome, thank you very much for the quick reply.
I’m gonna try the Chokaisan and another bottle to start with. Choices, choices…

Went to the Wine house to check out Born “Dreams come true”, chickened out and got the lower priced Born “Muroka Nama Genshu” instead. Accumulating little snacks to pair with it - shiokara, mentaiko… Debating if I should pick up a couple more bottles and do a simultaneous tasting…

How long does sake last after opening? Does vacuvin or nitrogen pumps help to preserve?

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It depends. Some say don’t leave a bottle that was already opened for more than a week. I once had a 3/4 finished bottle of Dassai 50 in the refrigerator for a little less than a week and the flavor deteriorated quickly.

Honjozo, Ginjo, Daiginjo have distilled alcohol added, so could potentially help stabilize even if opened for a bit. Not the same necessarily for Junmai, Junmai Ginjo, and Junmai Daiginjo, but there could be exceptions.

Some sakes are matured in 0 C or below storage, or in the bottle for a year or more. Not sure what happens after opening and let sit in the refrigerator longer but I doubt it will destabilize a lot.

No idea about vacuvin or nitrogen pump. If you try it out, let us know!

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Popped the top off the Born Muroka Nama Genshu. Full bodied - rose, plums and wood, sweeter side of scale. Definitely not for lighter foods, I paired it with Salmon Ogo poke with a side of mentaiko & shirako. I think it would go well with Buta no Kakuni. 17% Alcohol creeps up on you…

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It’s built for izakaya fare and salty even oily grilled foods (most nama sakes are best that way too). Definitely works with buta no kakuni, and yakitori with tare/sauce and braised items. It’s very fruit forward on the first sip but gets better as you eat. Might be even fun with Cantonese beef brisket daikon clay pot, soy sauce chicken, maybe cha siu, or a good steamed fish with soy sauce scallions and some oil.

Hope it was properly refrigerated when you purchased it, and continue to store it as such even after opening. It’s a genshu (undiluted) so yes it’s a fast creeper.

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The Born was great with Samgyeopsal, the fattiness tempers the bold flavors. Where the flavor paired with poke was too pronounced, it’s now settled back mid-palate blending quite harmoniously with the pork.

Is the bolder nama style sake flavor associated with the older generation? Watched the ‘birth of sake’ last night and there was a brief discussion about how a milder cleaner flavor has been more pervasive the last decade, much to the dismay of older connoisseurs.

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Sounds like you are having fun experimenting! Certain sake hold up nicely against spicy food and can be refreshing to have together (especially a nicely chilled one).

Birth of Sake is an excellent eye opening, well shot documentary. I’m sure sales of their sake have shot up.

Dassai would be the opposite end of the spectrum to something like Tedorigawa (and many other more traditional breweries). Modern vs Traditional. Dassai uses automation, there is no Toji (master brewer - human) and they heavily rely on technology and process control to keep a very consistent quality (though I wonder why my latest taste of Dassai 50 was far better than the last bottle I had). Breweries like Tedorigawa and Daishichi, apply laborious, time consuming, and traditional methods of sake brewing. Once you taste enough sake, try something that’s a Yamahai (Tedorigawa Junmai would work, or the one I mention below), and a Kimoto (both types in both lower and higher polished versions if you can find them).

And also try really old style sakes, Kenbishi Mizuho (Junmai, arguably aged a little) black bottle is one of the definitive types out there ($30 to $50 mark retail), and the brewer has been around since the 1500s, far longer than most. Also try their honjozo, and perhaps experiment with different temperatures (even warmed). Both are also perfect for izakaya/grilled fare.

Higher rice polish % and thus the more cleaner style sakes in the Daiginjo/Junmai Daiginjo range didn’t come about much much later, or even applying higher polish to Ginjo category of sake (it is said Dewazakura’s Ginjo achieving a 50% polish, came about in 1981). Uncertain about the history of nama sake.

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Yes its been fun tasting it with different food preparations at my own pace. i.e. does not work with goat cheese :grinning:

@beefnoguy really appreciate your time explaining the intricacies of sake! :pray::+1:Terrific reference.

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I’m going to look pretty nerdy next time I stop by Tokyo Centeal Market, near my son’s home in Costa Mesa. They must have over 100 sakes and this thread will be very useful. I don’t recall there being much English on many of them, so it could be challenging.

If anyone is familiar enough with their selection to offer specific advice (at the moderate end) I’d be grateful.

https://www.google.com/search?q=tokyo+central+market&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

Kenbishi Mizuho

Tokyo Central- $41.98 http://www.tokyocentral.com/p-7195-mizuho-kuromatsu-kenbishi-junmai-sake-2435fl-oz.aspx

Also try as another baseline for old world old style sake:

Sohomare Tokubetsu Kimoto Junmai

Don’t think Mori Sushi has the Kimoto Junmai but they have the Sohomare “Karakuchi” (~$65), supposed to be a nice dry sake.