Sake Talk Anyone?


It was great. Umelicious with the fruit tasted like a Jolly Rancher, then with that little creaminess underneath it was almost like a Creamsicle, :grinning: then light salt & slight gaminess of the Quail made it a savory. Hats off to Manager, Bethany Kocak, for the food pairing.


Maybe the soft water helped?


The water plays a part to an extent, but it’s more a factor of the brewer’s ability to master the art of aging this kind of sake under the right controlled conditions (temperature, timing, storage conditions) for the particular style in the case of Tatsuriki 1999 BY Omachi Junmai.

The (deceased) president of Tatsuriki (Honda brewery) was also the chairman of a group dedicated to the research of long term aged sake. So they know a thing or two about long term aging, whether the effect is to come up with a koshu like profile, or something in the vein of Born: Dreams Come True Junmai Daiginjo (clear/colorless but intensified aromas).

Daruma Masamune is a very famous brewery that focuses on koshu (they have other offerings as well)

and if you look at their catalog, they offer koshu of different ages. With each age comes a different color and tone of liquid inside the bottle. Obviously they wanted to do this, and also justify the higher prices for more aging (like whiskey).

This is their 20 year aged koshu, much much darker than the Tatsuriki (which does not even have the word koshu in its label)

True Sake has this one (might be the only one that’s exported) but it’s a whopping $161…


Some footage of Sake Day 2018 in a video, posted by one of the new employees of True Sake, Alex.

It is revealed in this video that the Daruma Masamune is a blend of koshu vintages: 1972, 1982, 1984 & 1989!


Love the snazzy soundtrack. :smile: Wow, a blend of vintages! Now, that’s what I call interesting layers of flavor.


The colors are gorgeous, like light & dark honeys and progressing to molasses.


Good talk


You asked, I answered. ???


Great! Let’s see if it works.

Edit: :+1:


I didn’t quite understand the premise but should I reply again?


Hi @TheCookie,

Find any new Sake you’ve fallen in love with? :slight_smile:


What’s the rule of putting an opened bottle of sake back in the fridge? I have read some articles online but would rather ask the community. I bought a couple of 720ml bottles of Born Gold. I would most likely finish in one sitting but if for some reason please advise on what to do.


Nope… you broke the spell and I can post again. It was something about me posting too many times in a row.


Thanks @Chowseeker1999 -

I mostly wanted to link some posts from other threads. But, yes I have a couple to post about.

Stay tuned…


Paging @beefnoguy. :wink:


The Born Gold is a namazume (single pasteurized) Muroka (unfiltered) Junmai Daiginjo, kind of an inbetween for a 100% unpasteurized vs double pasteurized regular sake. I find that Junmai Daiginjo, due to the more refined nature of the rice polish, to be more fragile and shorter range in terms of long term durability. Hopefully when you purchased it, it was properly refrigerated (storage 5 degrees C or below). If it was very lightly chilled or room temperature its structure would have already changed quite a bit (and you don’t know how it was handled or transported to the place of purchase also). I think the Gold may be more fragile as a result of the unpasteurization (half of it), its structure, given how light it is from advanced level drinker’s standpoint. Plus Born sake in general at the Junmai Daiginjo level (and in particular the ones that are exported to the USA), are not built to be consumed lightly chilled to room temperature (you lose the sweet spot / maximum potential after it goes above 10 to 15 degrees C and re-refrigerating it may not regain its previously chilled potential and profile).

If you have an opened bottle with some unfinished, hopefully you will keep it chilled under ice for the duration of the meal, and stick it back in the refrigerator as soon as you get home. My advice would be to finish the rest the next day (two days later would be pushing it) and keep it in as cold of an environment as you can. I tried a Dassai 50 opened with about 1/3 left some years ago, and really disliked the way it tasted (too much oxidation already and fast degradation) 4 days later. Born might be able to last just a touch longer but I wouldn’t advise it.

Sake that is already aged a bit in bottle or pre bottling (in tank), have lower level of polish (e.g. Junmai or Junmai Ginjo level), that can also withstand temperature differences and can be served warmed, generally are still ok some days later after opening then immediate refrigeration, maybe for even a week, longer if the temperature storage is close to 0 degrees C or just a notch below. Also every sake bottle even if the same one, can taste different with each batch or shipment. Worse case if you cannot finish it, you can always find other ways for it (e.g. cooking). This is also why a lot of sake bars and izakaya in Japan, they will have a variety of sake but mostly in 1.8 Liter bottle format (“magnum size”) but generally are Junmai, Junmai Ginjo, Honjozo, and keep it refrigerated…but these they tend to be built to last longer after opening (and also Japanese places in Japan take much better care, storage, and handling of sake than overseas).

If you cannot finish both bottles of Gold in one sitting, maybe offer staff, house manager, owner, or the somm a taste to ease the burden so you don’t have to take home leftovers. But until you really try bringing some back, sticking it in the refrigerator then try it a few days later (or one day one sip at at time to test the change over the course of the few days), you won’t know for sure.


Thanks for the very detailed response. The bottle is being kept very cold. I would be drinking the Born Gold at home with my wife. We can easily polish off 300ml but 720ml might be too much for a weekday sitting. Although I think we can manage. At worst we will try to keep the opened bottle for 1 extra day.

I have a list on my phone of most of the sakes you, @TheCookie and others have mentioned in this thread. The sake list has come in very handy. At Majordomo I ordered the Dewazakura Jewel Brocade. It was fantastic and paired well with many of the dishes. On several occasions at Raku and other sushi places when I don’t know what to order I look for familiar names like Dassai and Born. I’ve passed on some bottles based on price but my sake list is growing. Thanks so much for the very useful information and this extremely useful thread.


Good stuff… as always!


Oh sweet. I need to make a list on my phone too. All this information can become a bit overwhelming.


Still editing but a good starting point