I’ll make a point to take note of these interesting differences. Thanks. That’ll add to our fun. I’ve not had Chef Guerrero’s food previously.
Had a great time at this event.
DD, you were spot on about the differences between Plascencia’s and Guerrero’s style. The two cuisines unite under the banner of the Nueva Baja genre, Plascencia with his “deep roots” creations with sublime and subtle combinations of ingredients, and Guerrero with his marvelous “Baja Mediterranean” (trademark) renditions of dishes reflecting a strong Valle de Guadalupe influence. The service and ambience of the two dinners were similarly different, Plascencia’s with elegant, formal table settings and service, and Guerrero’s with wonderfully simple table settings and service in the open-air environment of the Kettner Exchange patio.
The food at the “Baja Med Exchange” dinner had a good deal of Asian influence to it, from the appetizer (a simple but very tasty soft shell crab in a bao), to the “Madagascar” tuna taco (my partner’s favorite), and the Vietnamese duck crepe. My own favorite was the California Chili, which in fact was a split Anaheim (or New Mexico) green chili with a delicious finely chopped seafood mix inside, served with an excellent beet vinaigrette on the side. Another favorite was the smoky lamb, which had been cooked to perfection and served with a complex sauce.
Several of the same vineyards that were represented at Plascencia’s dinner appeared again at this one, although most with different wines. The vineyards that were the same were Monte Xanic, Adobe Guadalupe, Paolini, and Finca La Carrodilla. In fact, the only different vineyard was Lomita.
We had the good fortune to be seated at a table with the husband and wife owners of Finca La Carrodilla and Lomita, as well as the owner of Vena Cava, and enjoyed spirited conversation about both the wines of Valle de Guadalupe and the exploding Nueva Baja food phenomenon.
There was live, pleasant music and the sold-out crowd was very upbeat. It was clear that a good many of the people there knew one another. All in all, a very enjoyable evening of fine food and drink.
Thanks again to you and Honkman for bringing this event to my attention.
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Thanks Doc for the great report! Wish Guerrero would open up a place NOB!
I do too. Maybe he will some day…who knows?
So you didn’t hear any rumors to that effect? Was hoping you might have the inside scoop.
On another note, it’s hard to find these VDG wines NOB and you can only bring a liter of wine back across the boarder if you go to Mexico. That said, San Diego wines are really starting to take off and there’s so much great central coast juice, that I find it hard to make room in my cellar for Mexican wines unless they are something really special. Have you tried any VDG wines so far that made you want to go search out and buy a case?
I’ve had Guadalupe wines I liked enough to buy cases, but not at the price they were asking.
Are there any wine bars in TJ with good Guadalupe wines? or restaurants with good BTG programs? besides http://www.lacontravinos.com/sucursalTijuana.php
La Lomita Pagano Reserva
La Lomita Cursí (nice rosé, good for summer)
Santo Tomas Barbera Reserva
Some of the Pijoan wines are nice, but I don’t know that I’d buy a whole case of any one. Wines are made in the French style
L.A. Cetto had a Sauv Blanc a couple of years ago that was pretty stunning…I would have purchased a whole case of that one.
Had some REALLY nice wines at émeve not too long ago
Mogor Baden makes a white from Swiss Chasselas grapes. Old vines. Very dry, very minerally, well balanced wine. Once again, not sure I’d buy a whole case (although Vincente Fox bought multiple cases for a Mexican State dinner), but definitely worth seeking out.
I am partial to Viñas Garza’s Amado IV which is a blend of several varietals. I have found this wine in SD at over $50 a bottle. It’s around $30 in the Valle. I also like their olive oil.
VdeG wines are erratic, some can be really good, others not so much. Love the view and ambiance at Las Nubes, not in love with their wines (by a long shot). The first time I went to Alximia I was definitely not impressed with their wines. I’ve been back several times and each time their wines are better than the last. Have done 2 Monte Xanic tastings in the last year. They’ve remodeled and rethought their wines, definite improvement. I had a tasting recently at Torres Alegre that was dreadful; their del Viko line which I’ve been told is their bottom line. Descantos is a fairly new entry from a Spanish winery. Decent but needs time; reds are stronger than the whites right now, but spectacular building and setting. Lots of underwhelming places too…
Truly Fine Wine on Morena Blvd carries La Lomita, Adobe Guadalupe and Torre Alegre. The new wine store in Liberty Station carries Mexican wines which were still in their boxes the day I stopped in, so not sure what wineries they’re carrying.
Thanks for all the great information DD! I am a cork dork and will definitely try some of the wines and wineries that you recommend. Problem is I have many friends and acquaintances who own wineries in California. I may be biased, but I agree with Robert that thus far I have yet to try anything from Mexico that I can’t find something much better from California at the same price point. I want VDG to succeed, but I’d also rather support the winemakers that are a little closer to home. With 115 wineries in San Diego county, we are really starting to see some very good wines here as well.
RISD, I hear you on supporting local vintners. My luck with SD wines has been hit or miss mostly, and I’ve found the Mexican wines to be better than the San Diego wines at this time. Truthfully, I’ve spent more time in the VdeG than I have in Ramona, so it may just be a question of exposure.
I also think part of the allure of the Valle is the whole ambiance and experience. The wineries and campestre restaurants have done a spectacular job of highlighting their environment. Rumor, and I stress this is rumor, has it that there is, and has been, a tremendous amount of laundered drug money funneled into the Valle to support the rapid development and expansion of the last few years. They’re selling sophisticated relaxation and doing it well. I’m not sure what the SD wine region is selling…
Nowhere in the SD wine country is there dining or campestre style to match the Valle, no doubt in large part due to the cost, and associated regulations, of opening and operating something like that! I think the Valle has our local wine country beat in spades on the food piece.
I think it’s important to note that Mexico does not have a long or deep wine culture, it’s been more beer and spirits, while California clearly does have a longer and deeper wine culture. It’s also interesting to note that aside from the area locals, the Valle has become a hot destination for national travel (i.e. mainland Mexicans). The number of nationals traveling to the VdeG has generally exceeded the number of visitors from NOB (my source for this tidbit is a friend who owns a travel business exclusive to Mexico and works with Mexican tourism frequently)
I haven’t found Baja wines any more overpriced than most Napa and Sonoma wines, and they tend to be unbalanced in the same way (too ripe, too much oak, too much alcohol).
California’s modern wine culture isn’t really all that much older than Baja’s. Prohibition created an almost complete break from the earlier tradition. One could date the rebirth to Georges de Latour hiring André Tchelistcheff in 1938, but in fact the number of wineries continued to decline until it bottomed out at under 250 during the 1960s. Very few of those were making fine wine, and for the ones that did it was mostly a small part of their business.
California wine culture as we know it really started in the 1970s, when the number of wineries doubled. Inspired by Tchelistcheff, Mondavi, and a few other pioneers, many of those new wineries made only fine wines, or at least were trying to.
http://www.wineinstitute.org/resources/statistics/article124
Robert, I understand your point, but the overall quality of wines in Napa and Sonoma are better in my, admittedly limited, experience.
Generally my wine dollars go towards small production high quality wines from central California and Sierra Foothills. Stuff that rarely tops 300 cases and is almost impossible to find and buy except from the winery This is where I feel that I get the greatest return on my money. Certainly nothing I’ve tried from Baja yet has made me change my mind. Unfortunately a lot of these boutique wineries that I have bought from for many many past years (like Saxum, Epoch, and Linne Calodo) have become so sought after, that the price has risen dramatically. I have a lot of this stuff in my cellar, but no longer purchase, because the pricing has become prohibitive, even with my discounts. But I still buy from some places like Villa Creek, Denner, and Terry Hoage, because they take care of me and give me special friends and family pricing.
That said, many of the owners of these wineries that I am friends with have led me to the best new up and coming winemakers making fantastic and affordable small production juice (like McPrice Myers, Scholium Project, Forlorn Hope, Deovlet, and Cedarville to name a few). I just don’t see VDG being able to compete with that . . . yet.
Locally (SD County), we have some great up and coming estate wineries with Los Pilares, Milagro, and especially Vesper growing some great fruit in San Diego and making some really wonderful and natural minimalist wines…
These guys are doing great stuff now and getting better all the time
I don’t understand the Mexican winery pricing vs quality. In the under $50 range I have had some decent wines but most have been ok…comparable to $15-$25 wines in the US. Is their main consumer base domestic (mexico) or for American tourists or for export?
That being said, I still have many many many wines in Temecula for $30+ that should be priced under $15 lol
I agree Mr. K. For the most part, Temecula is a ripoff, and anyway well over 80% of the wine produced there is made from imported non-temecula grown grapes.
There is an inherent problem with purchased grapes. I wholeheartedly believe that great wine is grown in the vineyard. So when you purchase grapes you don’t have any control. In fact it’s in the growers best interest to maximize his crop yield to be able to sell more grapes and this is diametrically opposed to what the winemaker wants.
IMHO some of the best wines, and the ones I tend to enjoy the most, come from low yield vineyards. All things being equal, the same amount of vines, leaves, and photosynthesis occurring now concentrates their energy and resources into a smaller amount of grapes which in turn yields greater depth and concentrations of flavor in the grapes. Vines should also have to struggle a little bit. Almost any organism faced with challenging environments does the same thing . . . concentrates it’s energy on reproduction and it’s progeny, so as to ensure propagation and continuing existence. In the case of grape vines, grapes are the progeny and represent the vines future survival. So if under a bit of stress, vines concentrate their energy not into growing big with lots of greenery, but instead they put more energy into their progeny, their future survival, their grapes! Thus I believe small production (relative to the vines) and high quality are inexorably linked.
That’s a major difference between cheap and expensive wines. But one must strike a balance. High production means you have more to sell, but doesn’t mean you have better product. On the contrary. Finding a winemaker that’s fully involved in the vineyard management and willing to make those green drops and production sacrifices to make smaller amounts of high quality wine is where its at.
I really agree with you. I think when the winemaker has a direct connection to the vineyard, I think it makes a better wine. That is why I have a problem with a couple of the San Diego wineries. They seem to seem to get their grapes from wherever and just make some wine. The drought may help the SD wines, In RSF, the new ranchettes seem to have more vineyards than the old orange or lemon groves of times past. In Temecula, I try to only taste the Temecula AVA wines and some of those are good, but they are probably overpriced.
I find the average quality of Napa and Sonoma wines to be terrible but I don’t know if I’ve had any of the ones you mention except Scholium Project and Forlorn Hope, which are radical outliers in terms of grapes and style and not particularly focused on Napa or Sonoma.
Matthew Rorick is my current favorite California winemaker.
Hi Robert. Matthew is one of my very favorites too! Surprising old world sensibilities from a new world UC Davis wine grad. But lately I’ve also really been enjoying the central coast wines from Ryan Deovlet and Mac Myers. Fantastic values IMO.
The Paso Robles wines from Villa Creek and Denner have really hit their stride as well with lots of whole cluster fermentation these days that provides for much greater complexity, structure, and longevity. They have also been harvesting earlier at less brix for the last 5 years. Yes they are still less restrained in their wine making style than Matthew, but I find them to be better balanced than most other 13.5% - 14.5% abv wines. They are both dry farming their vineyards as well. And, they both are doing some of their fermentation in concrete as well as stainless. It’s amazing how different the same wine can be from just that alone. Also, I don’t believe that either are currently using any new oak. Their wines are so much better now IMHO. The wine maker at Denner, Anthony Yount, was once the cellar master for Cris Cherry at Villa Creek, and these friends currently share a similar wine making philosophy.
The main problem with the few Mexico wines I have tried, is the salinity is too noticeable and the wines taste over ripe and unbalanced to my palate. Still I’m happy to see them grow and prosper, but I’m not yet ready to spend my wine dollars there.
Keep an eye out for Badan Chasselas de Mogor.
Monte Xanic Chenin Blanc is a good value compared with similar Vouvrays, which it might pass for in a blind tasting.
Viñas Pijoan is hit and miss, but when their reds are good they’re very good and not really similar to any European or California model.
Robert, a big thanks for the info. Now I’m really intrigued to try Vinas Pijoan_