Craft Breweries

Yes Of course. Taste is what it is to the taster, but I think it’s debatable whether a brewer can really achieve the same level of quality in huge quantity that he/she can in smaller batches. Just as with wine there’s an issue of consistency of ingredients among other things.

But breweries have it easier as they din’t rely on something similar as grapes.

Hops, malts, and waters are easily as complex as grapes.

They are but what I meant was that for large quantities of beer the access to hops, water and malts in consistent large quantities is easier than the access to large quantities of grapes for wineries.

Yet very different in that winemakers often grow, oversee, and nurture their own starting product!

Rhobwly, as you know they often don’t as well. My sense is that hops may not be as variable an ingredient as grapes, but I think the analogy still works.

99% of the stuff I like and drink is though. Problem with winemakers purchasing gapes is that in most cases, the vineyard owners interests are in conflict with the interests of the winemaker. This is true except in cases where the winemaker is allowed to manage the vineyard where he sources his grapes. I.e. the winemakers pays the vineyard owner by the parcel and not by the pound.

My personal opinion is that brewers have a larger affect on the final product (beer) during the brewing process, where as growers have a larger affect on the final product (wine).than the winemaker. Although contributions from both in both cases can’t be overlooked.

In other words, winemakers are there to steward the grapes into becoming the best wine that they can, but truly great wine is made in the vineyard, while brewers create great beers in the brewery. IMHO.

Can’t argue with that but my sense is that there are many quality wines where the winemaker has a widely varying personal involvement with the critical factors of the crop itself. I do believe the level of involvement is important but growers and vineyard managers are usually good at what they do as well. I certainly get a warmer, fuzzier feeling if I think of the winemaker out in the vineyard on a regular basis, but I don’t think it’s an absolute requirement for a good wine. 99%?? Really?

I don’t take exception with the points you’ve raised. I just wanted to point out that, while hops and barley are rarely grown by a brewer, they’re crops, and as such depend on the local “terroir” (soil, drainage, sun exposure, temperature, etc.) where they’re grown, as well as a particular season’s weather, in the same way that grapes do. Malting is almost never done by brewers, either. It’s a complicated and tricky process in and of itself. And brewers have to deal with the water, either accepting the local supply, or treating it in precise ways to obtain the best match for the yeast and malt.

Yes 99% of what I purchase and drink are estate wines or wines where I know the winery has control over the vineyard block. Understand that vineyards which sell grapes (by the ton) to wineries have little interest in reducing their yields. But in some cases a winery will contract with a vineyard to dictate farming practices and how much “green drop” is performed. Green drop (the practice of cutting unripe whole clusters of green grapes) ensures lower yields from the vineyard, but also means that all of the vine’s available energy and resources are now directed towards a much smaller fruit load. Ultimately these lower yields almost always translate to higher quality, more concentrated, and complex grapes and thus wines, but usually less profit for the Vineyard owners. Which is why the winemakers doing it right, IMO, contract with the vineyards for a certain square footage of the vineyard regardless of the yield as opposed to buying grapes by the ton from the vineyard.

I know both kinds. One who just buys juice in joker bottles to market. Another who visits his contracted blocks regularly and is intimately involved from bud break on. A couple in between too. The difference isn’t always that obvious in the wine but one would hope it would be.

The difference can also be seen in case production. Nothing I buy would ever be seen at a Costco, or BevMo, or supermarket. This is also what I think of for Micro breweries where production is so small that its distribution outside of its local area is extremely limited.

I have a hard time considering a 6 million barrel outfit a “craft” brewery. Sorry, that’s mass production.

Exactly the point I’ve been making. ;o)

Just a point of order: Ballast Point’s sellout had nothing to do with expanding production. They had already done that on their own, in San Diego (the Miramar location) and soon in Virginia. It is unlikely that there will be any fiddling with the recipes or supplies as a result of the sellout. This was all about distribution channels and access to real cash, I believe.

That’s the case with St. Archer as well.

Almost all great wines are made from grapes owned by or under long-term contract to the winery. The exceptions tend to cease production after a few years.

I’m not disagreeing (I don’t mean too anyway). I just am leaving room for good wine where the source, or intermediary vineyard management, is maybe more involved than the winery. Consistency, obviously, requires that quality be maintained over a long period. I know that. part of this has to do, as well, with good vs. great.

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Just realized that withdrawn posts still show up in the email notification received for them. Interesting. Rhonely, your wine price point is more like what mine was when I owned my wine shop. Sadly no longer.