While I appreciate the detailed report as usual, this is completely unnecessary. We’re talking about cooking here so I don’t understand why their ethnicity should matter. Did anyone question why Thomas Keller is running a French restaurant? Or why Nancy Silverton runs an Italian restaurant? Did anyone expect a line cook at any of these restaurants to be of a certain ethnicity? Can’t non-Japanese people learn to cook Japanese food? Just because I’m Chinese, do I magically know how to cook Chinese food better?
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Hi @moonboy403,
In a vacuum / perfect world, I agree.
There’s a whole subtext here that I should’ve just added, but I got tired of typing. There’s been many years of “bait & switch” openings that many of us have seen over the years (before you joined). Usually a famous Japanese chef or brand opens up in L.A., that chef/brand uses that fame to draw people in; and they leave (leaving it to others to cook) while cashing in. (For example, after drawing people into the opening of Ramen California, famous Japanese ramen chef Shigetoshi Nakamura quietly left the restaurant, leaving it in the hands of poorly trained staff that clearly weren’t Nakamura-san, but the additional articles and folks who were late to the party still thought it was run & all the dishes cooked by him. This has happened time and again.
In the case of Champion’s Curry they are pushing the angle of Japanese Curry from Kanazawa, Japan. That comment I made was in response to various posts I’ve read here and there (not on FTC, other sites, social media, etc.) of people proclaiming it “legit Japanese curry from Kanazawa, Japan!” “it’s authentic Japanese curry!”, etc.
So I was pointing out that it’s not OG Japanese staff running this branch, it’s locals. I didn’t say the locals can’t cook.
For the Chinese-run Japanese restaurant, there can be a different / unique execution with another culture’s version of a dish. I’ve been to Korean Sushi restaurants and Chinese Sushi restaurants and they have their own sensibilities and flair. (Note I didn’t say Korean Sushi or Chinese Sushi was "bad’ or they “can’t cook”.)
Of course anyone can cook anything if they learn the craft and care about it enough and have the skills. If you read my glowing post on Tendon Tempura Carlos Junior, I think Peruvian Chef Carlos Pinto Jr. is fantastic and is making the best Tempura Bowls in L.A.
I’ve seen the opposite as well: I know quite a few people who won’t go to Shibumi because it’s run by a “white guy” (Chef David Schlosser). Sadly those people don’t believe he can make “authentic” Japanese food even though I’ve told them about some great meals there and special things like how he makes amazing chinmi.
I’ll clarify my post as it relied on a lot of subtext / historical happenings, etc., it was just getting long (spent too much time typing it up) and rushed it.
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While I agree with you in theory when it has come to Japanese food over the recent years its been abused and bastardized by other Asians, (Chinese, Korea, Thais etc), even my own parents have told me at some point to cook Japansese food because I would probably make more money than doing Chinese.
To many of these non-Japanese run places they often times attempt to match the aesthetic of the cuisine with no sign of the mastery and lets be honest, how many highly trained Chinese sushi chefs are there in the United States?
So while in theory while its wrong to stereotype and judge a place before you go, unfortunately history has shown otherwise and in my own personal experience I’ve yet to be proven wrong heading into a Korean or Chinese sushi run place and being disappointed at the lack of finesse but being charged a similar price point.
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That’s an entirely different issue at play here. My point is that the problem doesn’t lie in their ethnicity. If the food comes out badly, it’s because the staff is poorly trained regardless of whether the remaining staff is Japanese or not.
Again, they don’t have to be OG or Japanese as long as the staff is well trained. The head baker of all Robuchon restaurants is Tetsuya Yamaguchi who isn’t French. You can say that the food is such because they’re badly trained but it shouldn’t imply that being non-Japanese is the reason.
I didn’t say you said that. I simply asked that we don’t ding a restaurant before we tried their food when the chef/owner’s ethnicity doesn’t happen match the cuisine’s origins. You wrote that you were already skeptical but felt relieved at the sight of a Japanese chef.
I did read it and kept up with it. You praised his cooking which is great. It perfectly demonstrates that a cook’s ethnicity doesn’t prevent him/her from making great cross-culture food. That’s all the more reason why I feel that it’s unnecessary to bring ethnicity into play when the food is bad.
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As have Cantonese BBQ in SGV, can we really say that they resemble what we get in Hong Kong other than looks? They have the “right” ethnicity. Even your restaurant’s BBQ aren’t like the ones in Hong Kong (which is not meant to be an offensive statement in any way), but as long as it’s good, it’s all good! I’ve gotten char siu plenty of times from you.
We’re talking about a simple curry here and it’s at a chain and a mom & pop shop too. On the other hand, I have yet to see any Chinese or Korean high end sushiya, relatively speaking, around with the exception of possibly this place or this place. Neither place seems bad by any stretch of imagination. As for mid-tier sushiyas, Opus Sushi in Arcadia, a Chinese run sushiya with a Chinese itamae, is much better than any of the run-of-the-mill Japanese owned sushiyas in Little Tokyo.
I can name Goyemon and Sushi-Mon in Las Vegas as a counterexample. They’re run by the same people that started Kabuto, a high-end edomae sushiya nearby in the city. There are a mix of Japanese and non-Japanese itamaes at the two non-high places and there are plenty of Chinese and Korean run-of-the-mill sushiyas that are better than those two places.
I’m not denying that there are bad apples in non-Japanese run restaurants, but the same can be said for Japanese run restaurants too and especially in Little Tokyo. So when it comes to bad or bastardized food coming out of the kitchen, stating that the chef and/or staff isn’t ethnically matched with the cuisine is unhelpful.
Just as @Chowseeker1999 didn’t ding PRD for offering a Japanese curry, other places should also get the same benefit of the doubt.
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Agree with what you say and the places you point out are def worthy of patronage but in terms of numbers we are talking about one in hundreds maybe even thousands? Statistically if I am armed with no knowledge from here and am an average diner with, dear God, only the help of yelp reviews I’d be screwed finding a high quality sushi place among all the sushi restaurants in the sgv. It may be morally wrong to use race as an indicator of quality but statistically it may sometimes be a diners fallback decision making criteria as racist and biased as it may be. People who don’t have unlimited funds to eat out or are on FTC where they can get highly curated info sometimes only have their biases to rely on. As far as curry is concerned in the context of this thread among all japanese restaurants whether Chinese or Japanese run I’d say 99% use commercial SB curry mix, I’ve had some amazingly terrible curry from all so many places so I’ve been burned in the past. Never have had decent curry from a Chinese run place, but even among Japanese run establishments its also rare. So I can see how @Chowseeker1999 observation of race while maybe morally questionable is still statistically on par with what I’ve personally experienced and trying to be as objective as possible but in terms of food, nostalgia, and personal taste thats always difficult to do.
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Hi @moonboy403,
It’s a complicated issue. I would say that ethnicity can offer an advantage and help. Consider a Chinese person with basic home cook skills (not classically trained, no high skill or technique), growing up in a Chinese family, eating Chinese food their parents & grandparents made and eating at Chinese restaurants. And then a white person growing up in, say, rural North Dakota (primarily white) with the same home cooking skills, growing up eating what their white parents and grandparents made them, etc.
Ask both of them to start making Chinese food, which one is going to do better? The Chinese person is going to have an advantage. They at least know something about how the Chinese food they ate growing up tastes, perhaps some knowledge of their parents’ & grandparents’ recipes, etc.
Look at how critical and detailed you are in your posting of Chinese food like about Pearl River. Some of that is tied to your ethnicity, you have more knowledge, understanding, what tastes more “authentic”, etc.
Look at how many pop-ups, food trucks and restaurants have chefs that talk about “wanting to cook the food of their heritage.”
There are plenty of local mom & pop shops, food trucks, etc., that have found some success, even if they weren’t real chefs / cooks back in their home country, simply because they grew up there and were surrounded by their culture, so they understood some basics / fundamentals of their country of origin’s cuisine without any additional training or studying.
And as Chef Johnny has pointed out, there is the factor of cultural appropriation, “bastardizing” cuisines, etc. I’ve had similar experiences to what Chef Johnny has posted about for Chinese Sushi or Korean Sushi joints around here, and Chinese Izakaya, complete with decor like hanging paper lanterns with Japanese words, pushing the whole aesthetic that it’s Japanese. None of them really appeal to me for execution, taste and skill (just my personal taste).
As you said, race shouldn’t be factor. If someone puts in the time, training, has the skills and executes, then that should be it. But that’s not the case oftentimes.
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Do we know anything about the white person growing up in North Dakota? Did he learn how to cook Chinese food at a young age in a Chinese restaurant? Perhaps he spent years in China learning? You assume that just because that person is white, he can’t possibly have any of those experience. Just as others assume that Shibumi is ran by just another white guy…
Believe me when I say that my heritage does next to nothing because home cooking is completely different than that of a restaurant for 99% of the family. My mother has been cooking Chinese food at home for no less than 5 decades and she has no idea what makes a good fried rice. She just doesn’t care about cooking or food which can be said about 95% of my friends living in Hong Kong. Convenience and price are king to them…not quality.
I learned the critiques from watching chefs in Hong Kong talk about what makes certain dishes. Anyone can learn that with subtitles. When it comes to fried rice, wonton noodles, and the likes, theses are classics that have been around long enough so there is a consensus as to what makes them great…sorta like a list checkboxes. For a lot of Western cooking especially on the higher end, let’s say Saison, there’s no template to what they’re cooking so we’ll never know if they didn’t achieve what they set out to do when they cook a dish. In that regard, they’re a bit more immune from critiques. All I can say about their dishes is whether the protein was cooked well and describe the texture, what they taste like, or if the flavor combinations worked for me. @JLee
It’s great that they found success. Should this prevent others from perhaps finding the same success because they don’t look right?
Fair enough. But are they absolutely bottom of the rung and can’t compete with any same tier Japanese run restaurants in the city? For most of these Chinese of Korean sushi joints, they’re targeting an entirely different crowd so they should only be compared to their relative peers. I’ve been to plenty of bottom of the barrel sushiyas in the city fitted with Japanese itamaes and they’re no better than the neighbor Chinese or Korean peers because all of these places are going for quantity rather than quality. But as I’ve said, the only mid-tier place, Opus Sushi, that I’ve been to with non-Japanese chefs can easily compete with their relative peers.
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Stated in another way, the issue is one of correlation, not causation.
Does an operator’s non-Japanese ethnicity cause their food to be less delicious?
Of course not.
Is there a correlation of non-Japanese-operated places (specifically Chinese & Korean-owned Japanese places) being less delicious than Japanese-operated places?
In my personal experience, yes.
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Can’t argue with having difficulty in finding a truly high quality sushi place in SGV! Within SGV, regardless of whether the sushi counter has a Japanese itamae or not has very little to do with the quality they’re churning out. The crowd they’re going for don’t give a shit either for the most part. Take Taihei in Monterey Park which is an almost 30 years old complete with Japanese staff and itamaes, you can’t convince me that it’s any better than its Chinese or Korean peers. If we venture a little further out to Gen Sushi in Little Tokyo, they’re absolutely one of the worse performing sushiya in their relative tier.
As far as using race as an indicator of quality for the average Joe, yes I can concur that that’s what they’re gonna do. But FTC is food forum full of geeks so we should definitely do better than that because we know the issue is much more nuisance than race.
That’s good to know lol.
Like @Starchtrade said, it’s more of correlation than causation. Are there more quality places run by Japanese chefs? I wouldn’t disagree with that one bit.
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what a strange way to get triggered
Apparently you’re not. The topic has changed. 
I have to agree with @moonboy403 to a certain extent. There’s a definite disadvantage for me not having historical or cultural knowledge of how something is supposed to taste, but there’s also the advantage of no preconceptions and relying more on my own tastebuds. It’s freeing. If it tastes really good I’m in. I want to learn and be respectful about the origins, of course (you should see my cookbook shelf lately), but I don’t want it or who’s making it to dictate whether something tastes good or not.
Anyway, I like this topic and this thread. Tremendous resources @Chowseeker1999! Thanks!!
P.S. Who keeps leaving that front door open?! You’re letting the cool air out! 
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Sorry Mom won’t happen again
Love,
FTC Son
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Classic!
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Immigrant Asian parents are not fond of starving artists 
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nope. they should be given the same treatment. you don’t get to shove your morals down our throats telling us to apply it universally n then step back n say “except in these situations”
you’re someone that frequents these forums often and should know the exact context of chowseekers posts, yet you still took issue with it.
I’m glad he pointed out out.
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So should every sushiya in LA be compared to a Shunji or Mori? In a broader sense, should every sushiya be compared to Saito and Jiro? That makes no sense.
When I said “Chinese of Korean sushi joints, they’re targeting an entirely different crowd so they should only be compared to their relative peers”, I meant that as comparing them to their Japanese relative peers in the same price range. I should’ve been more clear there. I didn’t mean it as compared to their relative non-Japanese peers.
My initial problem was with him judging a book by its cover because of ethnically mismatched staff and I stand by that.
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you sell out on the regular - economics suggests that you simply raise your prices if you want to make more money.
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Then all those F*$%$ing opinionated FTCers will pile on in a new thread with some contradictory rationale 
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