Eater: Fig & Olive Exposed Using Pre-Made Frozen Food

[secretasianman]

i stand by my statements and i do not see any inconsistencies in them.

certain fish are chosen to be frozen to achieve a desired taste and texture. the analogy breaks down if you take it all they way down, but it’s not unlike deliberately aging beef under controlled conditions with a goals which typically include moisture loss, tenderization (sp?) & flavor change. but not everyone cares for aged beef.

leaving fish out to oxidize is not the same thing, unless you really like the smell and flavor of oxidized fish oils. a chacun son gout.

[Porthos]

@secretasianman

leaving fish out to oxidize is not the same thing, unless you really

You missed the part in the Yasuda link where they talk about aging fish in cedar paper. Oxidizing/dry curing fish is analogous to your dry aging meat example not freezing.

Below piece was cured for 2 hours prior to serving. Texture was amazingly tender. At Sushi Nakazawa. Possibly the best sushi in the US these days. Not from Yelp in case you’re wondering.

Q Sushi also ages and cures fish before serving. Curing fish is “leaving fish out to oxidize” under controlled conditions.

“Chef Hiro employs varied techniques to coax optimal flavor profiles from the fish, including ageing [sic] (a process called nekaseru), curing, and adjusting temperatures just before serving.”

http://qsushila.com/cuisine.php

[mhlee]

When you write “oxidization”, are you referring to leaving fish exposed to air at any temperature, or at room temperature?

Oxidization can clearly help develop the flavor of fish. In particular, some Sushi restaurants are now aging refrigerated tuna for weeks, so a generalization that oxidization is bad is incorrect. It may not be what you like, but I’ve had one week aged tuna and it was neither smelly nor oxidized.

Leaving fish out, as you write, is different. Leaving fish out implies warming which is terrible for fish and dumb, which seems to be what you’re implying when you write “oxidization.” That’s not what most people refer to as “oxidization” - that’s called rotting.

Even oily fish like mackerel, in a refrigerator, will not cause it to go bad; it will cause it to dry out, but it will not immediately smell. If that were the case, then all cured smoked fish would smell because you need to develop a pellicle in many instances prior to smoking and that’s done by leaving exposed fish after curing in a refrigerator to dry out. And, no - curing does not create an impenetrable barrier to air. But, that’s not the case. If you eat smoked salmon or lox or any cured or smoked uncooked fish, you’re eating oxidized fish.

But “oxidization”, again, simply means exposure to oxygen. Oxidization in refrigerated or temperature controlled environments for certain periods of time is critical to the maturation of flavor in fish. Kobujime is one example. Kobujime is one method where fish is technically oxidized in a controlled temperature and environment.

In addition, as previously written, for Sushi, fish generally needs to be out of rigor mortis - unless they have gone through Ikejime. For larger fish, this can take days. Larger California Halibut can stay in rigor mortis for well over a week, larger California Yellowtail can stay in rigor mortis for a week. And, during this time, it is getting exposed to some air even if left on the bone, if gutted, so it is getting “oxidized” by definition. It is not going bad.

For what it’s worth, Sushi Yasuda did not close. Yasuda-San did go back to Japan, but the restaurant is still open.