Nobody expected from the start of the pandemic that the necessary measures will last forever but it was always about buying time
Authoritarianism aside, the US can’t imitate models based on networks of neighborhood monitors or health centers. And to date there has not been support for tracking that invades people’s privacy even though that is an established public health perogative for controlling epidemics and venereal disease.
Keep in mind that, while there have been few cases and deaths, the majority of the population in Vietnam is still susceptible to the virus. They do not yet have full vaccination; nor infectious herd immunity.
Several hundred thousand people in Vietnam were put into quarantine camps to squelch transmission. Extrapolating from their population size to that of the US would mean that millions of people here would have been so confined if we followed their model. And like them, we would have had to fully close our borders to all foreigners immediately after the outbreak started, and keep them that way to this day – and probably well beyond the present. Not to mention the Nazi-style intrusion of having the “covid police” knocking at our doors, and Communist-style neighborhood “monitors” watching us.
And in the end the population is still susceptible.
I’m not altogether opposed to the general concept of quarantine “camps” if they’re comfortable and well-designed and laid out, but being dragged out of your home involuntarily and put in one is pretty draconian, even if the end result buys time for the holy grail of herd immunity to finally arrive. If such places existed here, and if I were to test positive, I might well offer to voluntarily go to a quarantine camp. There’s a big difference between voluntary and involuntary confinement.
The biggest difference is that mandatory quarantine works much better than the honor system.
“Another factor at play is cultural differences in the willingness to follow rules. In a study of fifty-seven countries published in The Lancet Planetary Health , my co-authors and I found that in cultures with looser social norms there were five times the number of COVID cases and more than eight times the deaths as in cultures with stricter norms.”
I regretfully agree. The “honor system” has been an major barrier to many otherwise potentially successful covid mitigation measures in the US. No one wants to be tested unless it’s fairly urgent, out of fear that they would be directed to comply with a financially devastating weeks-long home quarantine.
And, they’re supposed to report their friends and other contacts, who might in addition, because of them, be quarantined and lose income as well (as in, “some fine friend”). Who wants to be responsible for their friends and acquaintances to be in home lockup because of them? I think a lot of this has been going on.
But what lies in between forced repressive authoritarianism, as in Vietnam, and honorable, responsible behavior? It seems to me through casual personal observation that “honorable behavior” where I live (San Diego) has been about 50/50.
Perfect
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I don’t see how you’re disagreeing with me about the honor system.
I don’t see how you think I was disagreeing. The honor system hasn’t worked here, and that’s been a barrier to mitigation measures.
Oh, I misread.
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So we’re going to lift restrictions in mid-June in CA, so says Newsom – a pretty obvious political move vis-à-vis the recall movement. (Which, by the way, isn’t just GOPers.)
But we’re still going to remain faceless masked people, by mandate, after mid-June. Trying to please everyone, but pleasing no one? We need to see each others faces to have a real society, and if we have implicit herd immunity by mid-June, to justify fully clearing restrictions state-wide, why the heck do we need masks?
No smiles. No handshakes. No high-fives. No hugs. No slow dancing. No contact at all. Gawd forbid you should actually touch somebody.
Faceless, touchless, robotic “society”.
No salad bars. No olive bars. No bulk spices, coffee, or even dried fruit, nuts, trail mix, et. al. No buffets. No group grilling.
Still no visitors at hospitals. In-person medical appointment implicitly or explicitly discouraged.
But I see that in LA and SD we can now have a beer at a bar that doesn’t serve food. Outside only, of course. That is, provided they actually have an outside space. Which few do.
Oh, BTW, how are the case counts and death rates going in Texas after they lifted all restrictions? Are a lot of the kids who were in Florida dropping dead after Spring Break? Did they cause another wave?
And Sweden just keeps sailing along with minimal government intrusion. Lots of new cases; very few new deaths.
Yet here in CA we have to wait another two months. And we’ll have to keep our masks on after that.
But hey, we should be happy. Newsom’s color-coded tier system will go away. Ain’t that wonderful. Wow, after all of those “unfortunate” permanent business closings, especially in the restaurant sector, in CA, due to Newsom’s “unfortunate” incompetence.
We do need a new governor. Republican or democrat. Just someone else. Newson has given new meaning to “whipsaw” in the past 12 months. And he smiles when he talks about it.
You’ll live. You made it this far.
Oh, come on. I’m not gonna come out in favor of niqabs, but are societies where those are worn not “real”?
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Newsom’s plan to lift most restrictions in two months is conditioned on trends continuing the way they have been, and unlike some of his pronouncements it seems to be “following the science” in a pretty conservative manner. It makes sense for masks to be the last restriction to drop.
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There will be still many people not vaccinated like everybody below 16 years. The new variants show that they are also far more infectious and deadly (or with lingering disease for months/years to come) in that age group. You might not have kids but instead of being egoistic how about thinking also support others who might still be vulnerable.
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You’ve taken the last phrase of a sentence out of its context, deleteriously changing the meaning. Not very good form, Honk.
Here’s an intelligent – as opposed to reactionary – discussion of the pros and cons as to whether or not to end the CA mask mandate at the same time that all other restrictions are lifted in mid-June, published today:
That was your context- and I still stand with my opinion that you are very egoistic in your thinking and just care about you. And your article doesn’t give any arguments for your opinion as that person who thinks similar to you doesn’t even address any of the arguments (and like you doesn’t understand that there will be many who can’t get vaccinated after June 15th even if they want to) of the person who raises obvious issues with lifting the mask mandate.
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Other than kids under 16, how do you figure that after two months of vaccines being open to all there will still be people who want them who can’t get them?
If things continue the way they have been going, by mid-June there may be no community spread except maybe in rural counties with lots of pandemic deniers.
It’s still unclear if vaccinated people can spread the virus (and early data indicates that they might be able but perhaps with a lower virus load) that keeps the under 16 years old still at a high risk for quite some time. And I don’t know if you have kids but we have and we see in the moment how fast the virus spreads in this age range including hospitalizations (as the new variant seems to be significantly more infectious for also that age range)
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