A whopping 47 passengers who flew on Vistara flight 6395 from New Delhi to Hong Kong on April 4 have since tested positive for Covid-19. That number represents 25% of the 188 passengers on board. … multiple independent studies — from the United Kingdom, New Zealand, Ireland, Vietnam and other countries — have found that Covid-19 can indeed spread on long-haul flights. In each case, researchers traced Covid-19 outbreaks back to one or more individuals who had recently flown on a commercial flight.
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Yes, exactly.
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Thanks for the correction.
The link from that quote:
The outbreak was linked through DNA analysis to one passenger who had tested negative for Covid-19 with a polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test within 48 hours of the flight. That infected passenger was contagious but pre-symptomatic onboard the plane, and subsequently infected at least four other passengers. … “These transmission events occurred despite reported use of masks and gloves in-flight.”
The question, though, is what kind of masks were people who got infected using and how were they using them? And where were those people sitting? If I were in a middle seat in economy on a packed 11-hour flight where I, and everyone around me, were wearing one of those flimsy, light-blue, medical masks that a lot people wear in a very unsafe way, I’d be worried. On the other hand, if I had a good, well-fitting, 3M, N-95 mask, I’d be more worried about the comfort of wearing such a mask for 11 hours (or having a middle seat on an 11-hour flight) than I would be about getting infected.
I actually had a bit of this dilemma when I did a few 11-hour roundtrips SFO-FRA last summer. I brought about 500-dollars’ worth of masks of different kinds in my carry-on luggage. (With the price gauging that was going at that time, that was a very small number of masks.) As it turned out, business class was so empty that the nearest passenger was about 15 feet away, so I felt cool with just wearing a flimsy, light-blue mask and having the ventilation on full blast. But the jetway felt less well ventilated so I probably used an N-95 when I was boarding.
Also relevant, perhaps:
https://www.sfgate.com/lifestyle/travel/article/Business-class-opens-to-masses-as-a-covid-refuge-16129499.php
What’s important is that we can’t believe the airlines’ claims about how safe the air is on planes.
Passengers D, E, and F were apparently infected in flight by A. Of those three, only E was not wearing a mask.
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/3/20-4714_article
Pretty much nobody but medical professionals have professionally fitted N95 masks.
Why would you need a professionally fitted mask? 3M makes tons of these masks for people who work in environments where there are chemical fumes, dust, etc. and they make a good job of making them fit right out of the box unless you have a very odd head size or shape. And they had better do a good job of making sure that you get a good seal immediately or they would go out of business. You probably can’t tell if you are in an environment where there are viruses in the air, but people who work in environments where there are lots of fumes and dust will probably notice whether the mask is doing its job pretty much right away.
Not the same thing.
OK, so please explain exactly how a general purpose respirator of a specific class is different from a medical one of the same class in a way that is actually meaningful for protecting you from disease when flying. And also why so many of the general purpose ones were taken off sites like Amazon so they could be offered specifically to medical personnel. We all know that anytime you claim that a device you sell has some form of medical capabilities, it will likely be subject to FDA regulations that are likely to be much more cumbersome to deal with than say Occupational Safety and Health regulations. That’s a matter of bureaucracy and I think we all know about that. (“These surgical N95 respirators are class II devices regulated by the FDA, under 21 CFR 878.4040, and CDC NIOSH under 42 CFR Part 84.”) Given that I own respirators of both categories, what I’d like to know is why I should really care more about wearing one type more than the other in practice. And I’d be curious to know what all of this has to do with “professionally fitted” masks.
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Sorry, but that one didn’t answer a single of my questions about why I should want to wear one type or another when flying. Doctors and hospitals may want to use FDA approved “medical” devices for liability reasons. So there will be a market for those. But we also know that selling anything that is considered a “medical” device will subject you to FDA rules and scrutiny that you might want to avoid if possible. So there will be a market for those as well. Manufacturer of earbuds are very much aware of this issue since you can easily manufacture earbuds that amplify ambient sounds much like a hearing aid. And you can matter of factly say that they do. But the moment you claim that they are actual hearing aids useful for people with a hearing loss, they become medical devices subject to a variety of FDA rules and approvals. And that may not be what you want. Apple is going through issue with the Apple Watch, which potentially could have all kinds of medical sensors. But would Apple really want to claim that they are “medical” and be a medical device company rather than a consumer electronics company if the FDA approval process would affect the product release cycle and the ability to get new versions out in time for the holiday season? Or would it really want to take on the kind of liability issue that medical device companies have?
Anyway, what I would like to know is what are the specific practical reasons to prefer one category of respirator over another when flying. Not interested in the bureaucratic domains of various government agencies. And please get back to me on the “professionally fitted” issue.
That, I guess, is a key takeaway. I was sure I’d read somewhere that’s not airline-affiliated that there hadn’t been any outbreaks traced to airplane travel. So much for that bubble.
This mask discussion is giving me a headache.
I haven’t seen a comparison of various kinds of masks that included N95 respirators and surgical masks, presumably because since they’re supposed to be reserved for medical personnel etc. such a comparison would be irresponsible and antisocial.
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/personal-health-care-us/products/facemasks/
The entire thing about achieving perfection when it comes to masks is just beyond silly. It’s totally a numbers game to reduce the probability of getting infected. A mask with a 90+ rating will do the job of that just fine in most situations and if you get it from a reputable manufacturer, like 3M, chances are very high that you will get a very good seal right out of the box. If you are on an 11-hour flight, chances are that at some point, you will take off the mask to eat and drink. So you will indeed be playing the numbers game so why waste effort on something as silly as a “professionally fitted” mask? Do you get your 25-cent surgical masks “professionally fitted” as well? Just the number, 95, is a kind of a probability rating. Even a 100 rating is only supposed to guarantee 99.97% effectiveness for the size of particles the standard is based on. For the record, I have a P100-rated mask but I have never used it since I try to stay away from environments where that kind of effectiveness could make sense.
But I have a personal experience where a 100-percent seal actually mattered. As part of a military exercise, I had to wear a gas mask in a tear gas chamber. It was obviously a standard issue, not a “professionally fitted” one. Let me tell you this, if your gas mask has a leak in a tear gas chamber, you will probably notice it sooner rather than later. And the way you will notice it is very, very, very unpleasant. (My mask worked fine, but the stench of tear gas in my hair lingered for days in spite of having worn rain gear and, afterwards, taken numerous showers.) The Captain leading the test stated very clearly ahead of time that he didn’t like it at all. He probably only had to do the drill once a year and I don’t think he actually bothered to go into the tear gas chamber with us. So why did he hate this particular exercise so much? He had a full beard.
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This link seems to imply that the standard version of a 3M N95 should be adequate for healthcare, frontline, and critical workers. Why else would anyone try to reserve it for them?
It also seems to imply that if you wear a 25-cent, light-blue, medical mask without being on the front lines, your are misbehaving. Good luck with that idea!
Did you not read this the last time I posted it?
https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1794572O/surgical-n95-vs-standard-n95-which-to-consider.pdf
Please point out what you find relevant to air travel in that link.
Agree
It’s not relevant to air travel, unless you have surgical N95 masks, in which case you’d surely use them on planes.
I posted it because you were suggesting that there’s no difference between those and standard N95s. If you want to dispute that further, do it on some other site.