Second loaf turned out better. The only change we made was 25% whole wheat flour and 75% AP flour. Definite improvement but forgot to take a picture. We are going to make several loaves over the next few weeks to see which tweaks help the most. Our goal is to have a better crumb with this flour ratio. The other tweaks we plan on testing are different hydration %, cooking at higher temperature and longer proofing.
Prior to covid we didn’t make any bread because we were very intimidated. Making bread takes patience but it’s been fun lurking on some boards and practicing different techniques.
I repeat what I wrote in the original post - the key to great bread, apart from American or Japanese soft breads, is the slow rise. There is a certain magic that happens when yeast is overworked. It transforms texture and flavor. This can happen from a pre-ferment; poolish, biga or pate fermentee, a sourdough starter, or just a slow bulk fermentation.
I really suggest getting one of the books I recommended in the initial post. Those guys know so much more than we do.
Best of luck and I look forward to seeing your triumphs in the future!
Also, a longer rise doesn’t necessarily have to result in a ton of “sour” (e.g., SF sourdough). I personally think it add just adds more complexity, IMHO. And maybe your gluten needs the slow rise to organize itself more (gluten is less temp sensitive than is yeast). But not sure if commercial yeast work that well for long rises.
I’ve found the Breadmaking 101 series on Serious Eats to be helpful (and one article mentions that gluten/yeast temp sensitivity):
Great point sourdough does not have to be sour -most French levain isn’t. Commercial yeast can be fine for long rises Active dry is better than instant / rapid rise types for long fermentation
Hmm I have been using SAF Instant for decades and I have never had a problem with long fermentations. That isn’t to say you are wrong, as I haven’t used active dry for those decades I don’t have a base for comparison. Interesting question. Maybe I will try active dry next time and see if there is a discernible difference.
Apart from our discussion of artisan bread I offer you my quest for the perfect American bun; hamburger or hot dog. This is a rich dough, quick rise and baked at a fairly low temp. The goal is a mildly sweet, semi-rich bun that can stand up to a juicy filling without turning into a knife and fork fiasco (As I think all of you do I like to eat my burgers and dogs with my hands). An added bonus for the hot dog version I have been searching for a recipe that produces a bun that won’t split when I slice it to put the dog inside. I think I have finally found it. How To Make The Best Burger Buns Of All Time - YouTube I found this recipe on YouTube. The host is a bit cloying, but everything I have tried of his has been spot on. He describes it as a hybrid of brioche and Japanese milk bread. I first made this for burgers and they were great. Today I was pressed for time and was craving hot dogs. Jim’s Fallbrook Market carries the best hot dogs I have ever tasted; called koney dogs or something like that. They are garlicy, smokey, and the natural casing has a great snap. So I used the hamburger bun recipe to make New England style hot dog buns paired with my home cured sauerkraut, excellent Dijon mustard from Epicurus and Jim’s dogs. So good. Highly recommend it!
I made these with bread flour, and they were plenty soft. The recipe utilizes the Japanese method of tanzhong, Introduction to tangzhong | King Arthur Baking, which adds loft and softness, as well as keeping the bread fresh longer. I have tried making milk bread both with tanzhong and without and I prefer it with.
I’m familiar with it from when it became popular years ago! Just haven’t done it in years. It’s interesting trying to get that more spongy texture with out using a dough conditioner… Maybe that’s the way to go.
