A few comments.
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No one was trying to censor kevin, and certainly not me. If you reread my email to him, I was trying to defend his particular style of posting. Not mute him.
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As to why those who have complained about kevin’s style are not made public, that is not a decision for me to make. Those who PM me have a justified expectation that their messages will remain private. If they wish to publicly come forth that is their decision to make, not mine. If those who support kevin need a target to direct their objections, anger, dissatisfaction, or whatever, in the interim feel free to direct them at me. I was the one that sent the email to kevin after all, not anyone who objected to his use of the F-word.
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I don’t think there is a lynch mob mentality directed at kevin; in fact it feels exactly the opposite. To me it feels like those who support kevin are after a pound of flesh from those who object to his style.
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Regarding style and art. While I agree we should all respect the personal artistic style and nuances of a particular individual, I think it bears keeping in mind that, with respect to this fora, we live in each other’s space. Respect is only meaningful if it is mutual.
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Perhaps an example will underscore what I mean. Let’s say everyone is invited to a dinner party, and the dress code on the invite says “cocktail attire” and the artist in the group, who is an exhibitionist, decides to arrive in the flesh - in the name of art. Some of the guests take offense, and ask the host to say something. If the only thing said in response is “just don’t look” it doesn’t do much to solve the problem. Knowing that a naked person is in the room eating dinner with you can, for those who are not exhibitionists, be a bit jarring. Same here. Saying just don’t read kevin oversimplifies the issue, and solution.
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Likewise, it is not unreasonable to ask for the exhibitionist to perhaps don a pair of shorts just for the entree course, and remain completely free and naked otherwise. Again, this is about respect which has to be mutual to be meaningful. The guests should respect the artist’s wish to be nude and likewise the artist should respect those around him who feel uncomfortable with him in the flesh. After all, everyone is at the dinner party together.
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Lastly the web censor add-ons are not all that effective. Try it sometimes. Using it for someone with kevin’s proclivity makes the board almost unreadable.
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Kevin was the most Creative writer on this site . And that really isn’t a fucking joke .
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I realize I’m not one of the cool kids on the board, but for what it’s worth, I think Ipse’s email was very well written and diplomatic. I will admit that I’m not a fan of kevin’s “style”. I don’t find swearing to be offensive, but I do think there’s a time and a place. Kevin seems like a very intelligent person, and I enjoy reading his non-profanity laced write ups but it’s hard to take most of his posts seriously when they read as if my 12yo son and his friends wrote them to see how many times they can use the work “fuck”. “This place has the best fuckin’ fried chicken ever!” is fine for me, but “Where the fuck can I find the best fuckin’ fried chicken in fuckin’ WLA?” comes across as juvenile.
I’m not sure why kevin chose to leave as opposed to explain the reason behind it or even tone it down a touch. It comes across (to me at least) as a tantrum of sorts, which just adds to the whole childishness of the whole thing. I do hope he returns, as it seems like he has a lot to contribute, but I also hope he does take Ipse’s suggestion and tone it down a notch. But, like I said, I’m not one of the cool kids here and I recognize I’m in the minority here.
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Please. One of the most robust threads on this board is a wholesale evisceration of kevinEats. Not everyone is playing nice around here. And certainly not tantamount to a few private messages sent to a moderator.
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You’ve got thick skin like other blue people so that’s appreciated. You also signed up for a thankless job. My thoughts are not to shame you but to stop a practice that makes people sad.
Your publishing your email to Kevin on the board was a mistake. Even Marssy knew better. It comes across like you being defensive but has other consequences.
Hard to trust a moderator that does that. How can any person with a sensitive issue now expect fair and private treatment unless this issue is acknowledged and the practice stopped.
Fact is you are held to a higher standard because you are a moderator just like @robert. You are also more influential which in this case didn’t help diffuse matters.
Please put yourself in Kevin’s shoes reading these posts about him and ask yourself would you ever return.
I think this mistake needs to be acknowledged and this practice of publishing private emails with members needs to stop.
Easy for the non-bullied (@djquinnc) to say “please” it’s not cyber bullying but they don’t get to dictate to others how they feel.
This thread and the rants against Kevin are textbook cyber bullying.
Let’s avoid that.
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I would agree with you if Ipse published Kevin’s private email response. But Ipse is publishing his own email message, not someone else’s.
Though I don’t agree with your point of view I can see how you could be upset.
As I read the email, Ipse was being transparent and there were no insults to Kevin. Your comparison to Marssy was an attempt to get people to sympathize with your view but was out of line and totally off base. Ipse was being 100% transparent while Marssy and the CH mods did everything they could to make things mysteriously disappear. I think it was an attempt to be the complete opposite of that which prompted Ipse to show that he is totally transparent.
It just goes to show that moderation is a thankless job and that you’re never going to make everyone happy all of the time. Even though it can be difficult and controversial I think the goal is to do the greatest amount of good for the most number of people.
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You don’t think any response would not have been shared too if not quoted?
No I’m making a point that this is a step down from how even chowhound conducted its business of censorship. Nobody more transparent motive wise than Marssy and friends. Corporate folks, they understood acknowledging it wasn’t good for business. There’s tons of failed aspirations here to be a new better chowhounds. These are straight up comments.
I’m glad you didn’t quite pull the how dare you talk to ipsi that way because it’s not a dissimilar tone that Kevin got from the group leader.
Anyways moving on to cat burglers…
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This, so much this. I like Kevin and my reaction to his f bombs was more of an eye roll and I just skipped past to the actual content. But then again, I was never bothered by all the other complaints such as ads that seem to crop up on this site or CH. I just trained my eye to skip over and not get worked up about it.
Kevin was asked politely by ipse to explain. It was his choice to leave without even giving ipse any ammo to push back on the people who said. something. Those people didn’t attack Kevin, they just asked the moderator if there was a way to moderate. If there’s any bullying going on, it’s all these people who are choosing to attack the ones who brought up the issue.
I’ve spoken with a few lurking ex CH who have never bothered posting or creating accounts. They were put off by his F bombs and the same circle jerk that got banned at CH. They chose not to participate in this forum as a result. This was their choice. I’ve encouraged them to look past and join but they chose not to do so, to them it wasn’t worth it. It’s a choice, just like Kevin chose to walk away rather than moderating his behavior. Apparently Kevin feels it’s not worth it to him to change his style and would rather not join. There is no right or wrong here, it’s a choice by all parties.
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Absolutely not.
Ipse and I have disagreed on many things in the past. But he has shown that he is trying to be as fair and transparent as possible and honestly without him the LA board would be scattered between CH and HO right now. This is the most Kevin tolerant board of the 3.
And @Inspector_Clouseau I wish you would just post under your original alias.
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Calling a member a circle jerk seems to be a repulsive personal attack that the rules say you should be banned for.
The board seems to encourage cyber bullying.
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Norton says the WebCensor Chrome and Firefox plugins are OK.
@robert couldn’t you just have used that to filter out “overrated” instead of suspending someone’s account and making a big deal out of it? That by far was the “weirdest” if we are talking weird and using filters.
“Weird” is being generous.
No need for the whole nine yards on that one but, keeping with the concerns regarding cyberbullying, I’m not surprised @Mr_JJ is laying in a coffin right now.
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Porthos,
I for one would like to know if a restaurant had the reputation of ladies of the evening working there. My mom’s 90th is coming up and she still likes steak, and Mastro’s was one of the places I was thinking about, now I crossed that one off my list.
LOL! Really? How about some reading comprehension and context? Yeah…circle jerk refers to a pattern of behavior by a group of individuals. You can’t use it as an insult to an individual. I’d lump myself in that circle jerk when the site first started and it was the same people talking about the same old well worn topics such as best Pastrami. That’s why those ex-ch people I spoke with didn’t want to join.
I’ve dined with Kevin and exchanged numerous emails over the years. If I really wanted to insult him, I’d do it directly at him and not hide behind a message board post hoping he’d see it. I’m not a keyboard warrior. Anything I post on a board, I have no issues saying to someone in person.
Either way, I’m done with this thread. You are obviously looking to stir trouble. I’ve said my thoughts in my original reply to ipse.
I hate it break it to you but many of the big name steak places in LA do.
Which makes those Mastro’s threads all the more absurd.
I am sure that is true as I am sure that there are working girls in many high end hotel bars, sushi and Chinese restaurants. Any place were well heeled “lonely” businessmen might be. The implication to me from that post, was that they were more prevalent and obvious at Mastro’s
Personally I think Ipse handled it very well and in a constructive manner and that Kevin responded like a fucking baby. I told him so in a private email. I like Kevin and correspond with him frequently. I would love to see him return. I also think Ipse was right to post his email to Kevin. He was being transparent. Kevin had shown it to me and I would have liked to have posted it so people would not speculate, but did not feel it was my place to do so. It was Ipse’s place and I applaud him doing so. Again, I am a Kevin friend.
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With friends like these who needs enemies?
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