I think you overstate the issue of kevin in a bar. Again - consider it a euphemistic metaphor. If you are a bar keep or bar owner, you me feel otherwise, but dwelling on this seems pointless to me. Only those that have spent time with him could give a definitive answer.
Your second point is answered by your first point. Bar keep ipse couldn’t even get to the point to ask him to leave. kevin felt it better to leave so as to not create any more of a scene - by our overreacting to something I see as so trivial - consider it a preemptive strike. If you see kevin as being uncompromising, that’s your prerogative. I see his move as diffusing something he probably felt pretty bad about starting in the first place.
I guess we agree on folks who show little or no respects directly towards others. That’s a personal perspective and we all our own peeves. I can’t shut up and tend to be long-winded - I’m sure that’s a peeve to many.
Whether this community, this forum, has legs depends on factors which the founder of this site feels are important. It’s his ball, and he seems pretty open about sharing it with others. I can’t speak to the threshold as far as what numbers are needed and what-not to stay afloat. If singling out an individual and rehashing ad nauseum what happened how many months ago is going to attract more posters…
Discourse’s flag system is the polite way to complain about disruptive posts. Based on the admin reports, in the past two months we’ve had only one user who regularly pissed people off to a significant degree.
I’d impose moderator post approval on such users if Discourse offered the option, but @codinghorror thinks that’s a bad idea:
I think this topic comes to life now and then due to the people who would like @kevin to post again, not because anyone particularly wants to rehash old discussions.
Generally speaking, I think the Site Feedback category should have little or no effect on whether new people take part in the site proper.
Based on my 25+ years participating in and moderating online discussion systems, I think it’s important that regulars feel that they can express any opinion about the site. That’s the main purpose of this category.
Self-moderation is the key to being part of a community. That Japanese proverb/simile, “The nail that sticks out will be hammered” is too extreme in my thoughts. However, conforming within certain bounds certainly helps.
I guess this is the main point we disagree - for me Kevin clearly overreacted with leaving this board when for the first time somebody (Ipse) directly addressed his behavior. Instead of reacting like an adult and explain his position (and nobody expected on this board that he completely changed his style but just tone it down a bit) he run awsy like a small child who doesn’t get his way.
I don’t think we will ever see eye to eye, as I disagree with your take on things and I choose not to call kevin names. I consider it insulting - shrug. I don’t think he has directly called anyone a name or derogatory descriptive on this or the other board.
Whatever the case, I appreciate your input on this issue and hope we can come to an agreement that while we may view things differently on certain issues, we can coexist.
It’s easy to play armchair psychologist in a situation like this I guess. If I find someone in my home decides they want to walk around naked a lot, and that makes me uncomfortable/upset/nervous/uneasy/fill in your own emotion, I can ask them to put some clothes on. If they won’t, I can make them leave. Here it’s not ‘my’ house.
I think that, while kevin’s IMHO ‘excessive and gratuitous’ f-bombing bothered me, I was reaching the point where I could overlook it for the most part depending on my mood at the time. Part of me didn’t really care, but I have to say that part of me resented the intrusion of his style choice into my range of view. I was more in the oh please dial-it-back dude camp than the go away dude camp. If he had something great to contribute I just thought he did himself (and many others) a disservice by injecting the f-bomb environment.
Now… being totally honest, if that were Charlize Theron walking around my house naked, well…
I don’t think that the posters who want Kevin to be able to post freely think of him as a victim. We see ourselves as having lost some fun reads. Kevin is kinder than many people who are not censored on this board. He never put down people who disagreed with him and when he asked for recommendations, he got us all thinking about all our favorite places, not just the recently opened restaurants.
I completely disagree that asking him to use the word fuck less often is comparable to asking someone to use their inside voice. The thing about screaming is that you can hear it whether or not you want to. Kevin’s posts are very easy to identify. Just look for strings of question marks. If you don’t like them; don’t read them. I believe that the people who want Kevin back with no strings attached are more comparable to the people who defended the Mapplethorpe exhibits. We believed that this board would be free of the censorship that made it unpleasant to be on Chowhound.
It appears that this board is pretty much the same. If your opinions agree with the founder, you can say whatever you want; if you disagree with the founder you will be asked to change your tone or your posts will be locked. This is most noticeable where the consumption of animals is concerned. Insulting vegetarians and vegans is okay; defending them is not. Trumpeting your love of foie gras and bluefin tuna is okay; pointing out the downside of eating them is not.
That was a cool post. I don’t agree with everything you wrote. I’m not sure the Moderators were offended about Kevin swearing. They were trying to be considerate of those who were offended. Some people don’t like swearing. I’m not one of them, but I understand.
Anyway, you wrote some cool stuff.
[quote=“maccrogenoff, post:154, topic:2093”]
Trumpeting your love of foie gras and bluefin tuna is okay; pointing out the downside of eating them is not.
[/quote] Great!
This one is the most insightful and actually touching description of kevin I have read.
There’ve been a hundred explanations for kevin’s use of the word fuck - I even have my own theory - but none from him. Hmmm.
Regardless of whether or not the use of the word fuck is or is not something that anyone has a valid right to object to at all, isn’t there a difference between occasional contextual use and the way kevin used it? I saw it as gratuitous at best. I don’t really have an objection to it per se, but I saw his use of it as flaunting the apparent lack of any rule here prohibiting it. Seemingly using it just because he could, and (unless he’s oblivious) knowing that it would offend some people. Is that an incorrect assessment?
Every once in a while I come across (usually a younger) person who sprinkles the word liberally through their conversation regardless of who may be in the vicinity. I’m far from being ‘a younger’ person any more, and I do get that things change. I just feel as if someone who seems not to give a damn about the sensibilities of those around them, is not the kind of person I’d like to be around. OK… so it’s been said that anyone ‘offended’ can skip over those posts. But… why should the offended person be inconvenienced by something that I’d think the vast majority of the general public would agree is sensitive? Is it really out of line for a moderator to ask that the language be ‘dialed back’? In this case, my understanding is that that wasn’t even what was done. So kevin was asked to (unless I’m misunderstanding) help people understand why he placed so much value on his ‘freedom’ to lace so many posts with a word that some found offensive.
He chose to leave rather than have to ‘explain’. I liked most of what he had to say and I think it’s too bad that he made that choice. But it was his choice to make, given the circumstances. Maybe someone should start up another foodie board where using ‘expletives’ and really offensive words (I mean REALLY offensive) is part of the experience? Or maybe another board called “I don’t give a fuck!”. Personally I think I’ve had enough of the psychological examination of kevin’s free speech needs… if that’s even what this was all about. Since he chose not to ‘explain’, I’ll never know.
The the constant profanity wasn’t the only odd thing about those posts. It seemed to me like some kind of art project, posting as an invented character.
ciao bob:
it appears that he is very capable of finding out where to go WITHOUT our help.
the restaurant he reviewed for the LA Times was certainly not a ftc “find”/“darling”/"favorite
the restaurant he reviewed for the LA weekly also was not an ftc “find”/“darling”/favorite before KEVIN himself, posted about it in, i believe, 2015
