Mislabeled fish at LA's high-end sushi restaurants

[Bookwich]

@Eater15

When you go to a good sushi bar, you can trust the imatae is serving you something of quality and without any deceptive intent. And unless you’re a real hardcore fish geek like me, and usually even then, any variety in the exact species and origin of the fish is a triviality.

And this.

[robert]

@Eater15

one man’s trash is another man’s treasure

I’ve had good sushi chefs tell me, “don’t order that, I have it because customers demand it but let me give you this instead.”

[happycat]

Well said! THANK YOU!

[not_tellin]

LOL! Well said, we both always seem to be in these threads. Thanks for saving me the time typing something similar out.

[mhlee]

@Eater15

Most of the chubs (that’s the family it’s in) around the world are considered terrible by locals. But when an LA food critic eats mejina, the incredibly close analogue from Japan, he doesn’t seem to think it’s inferior.

Mejina is a Girella which is only one family (Kyphosidae) of fish considered within the larger category of “Chub”; its a Sea Chub but “Chubs” also include carps (different family which have a completely different meat structure (grain size and density) than Mejina. Mejina is also a commercially valuable fish in Japan. And what does appreciation of a Japanese fish have to do with not appreciating a local fish? Perhaps the Japanese fish IS better, and from what I’ve seen from multiple trips to Japan and Tsukiji and other fish market in Japan, Japanese fish IS often better because the Japanese seafood industry generally uses better harvesting, storage, and handling techniques than the US seafood industry.

@Eater15

And unless you’re a real hardcore fish geek like me, and usually even then, any variety in the exact species and origin of the fish is a triviality.

Exact species and origin of fish is a triviality? This is ludicrous. I worked in a retail seafood market, purchasing, cutting, and selling dozens of kinds of fish, including numerous California Rockfish (all Sebastes genus), and Sushi grade seafood, including Japanese fish. Similar or even identical species of fish from different areas taste different, and fish of the same Genus but different species can be very different. Size and the season that fish were caught also matter as far as meat density, oil content, and flavor. That’s why Mexican Bluefin tastes different than a Japanese Bluefin (same species), and a Philippines Yellowfin tastes different than a Hawaiian Yellowfin (and why Tunas are often graded based on quality), why small tunas are, generally, much less than larger tunas (meat texture, density, and fat content are very different), a Fiji Albacore is WAY different than an Oregon Albacore (lean vs. rich; dense vs. soft), a Japanese Hiramasa meat can taste and look better different than a California Yellowtail (both are Seriola Ialandi). If it didn’t matter, why are so many Sushi bars using Japanese fish when similar or even identical fish are available locally? Water quality, current strength, temperature all affect fish, e.g., why wild winter fish are noticeably more fatty than summer fish (e.g. Saba) and an Inada or Warasa (younger Japanese Yellowtail) is a completely different fish than a Buri (larger Japanese Yellowtail); that’s also why there are different names of the same fish in Japanese for different ages/sizes. Quality and taste are also directly related to handling and handling techniques vary greatly from country to country, e.g. Ikejime in Japan vs. dumping fish into an unrefrigerated crate is origin-related. Nearly every person that I’ve spoken with in the food industry that has worked with seafood will tell you that species and origin do matter.

And if species and location didn’t matter, why is there such a drastic difference in flavor between certain farmed Atlantic Salmon​, let alone the difference in both taste and texture between Atlantic farmed salmon and wild Pacific salmon (both Salmonidae family), and noticeable differences in color, texture, density and flavor between Chum, Sockeye, and King Salmon? If it didn’t matter, all seafood prices would be the essentially the same, and all Sushi restaurant would essentially be the same.

Perhaps you can’t tell the difference between species or origin. That doesn’t mean that species and origin are trivial.

[not_tellin]

I think that’s a misdirected post.

[Bookwich]

@mhlee

Perhaps you can’t tell the difference between species or origin. That doesn’t mean that species and origin are trivial.

Of course it’s not trivial, however, most of us are not in the seafood industry, so we place our trust in the chefs and retailers serving us to know these things, and to give us what they say they are giving us.

[hungryhungryhippos]

@Bookwich

@mhlee

Perhaps you can’t tell the difference between species or origin. That doesn’t mean that species and origin are trivial.

Of course it’s not trivial, however, most of us are not in the seafood industry, so we place our trust in the chefs and retailers serving us to know these things, and to give us what they say they are giving us.

Well what occurs when the industry and chefs are purposely or unknowingly (but making no effort to check) sourcing inferior/cheaper products and telling us, the restaurant going public, that they are using superior or more expensive ingredients? I know this wasn’t mentioned in the article but for example, if a sushi/fish purveyor was marketing farmed atlantic salmon as wild salmon, I would be outraged as the cost difference and the fish quality would be drastically different. I don’t think any counter that “it’s all salmon” would be acceptable to me personally. And while I do agree that this is an example that is different from discerning what we call a halibut from a flounder, a huge selling point in sushi and other high end fish, whether warranted or not, is the origin of fish and the type/species of fish being sold.

So in cases where we are being misled, either purposely or without malice, is the onus on the public just to be discerning or shrug and say “yup, that’s ok…I trust them”? I think that’s kind of ridiculous, especially when there’s mounting evidence to the contrary that best practices are not being followed within the industry.

This reminds me of the Kobe beef issue a couple of years back, where restaurants listed “Kobe” beef on their menus. I’m sure the more discerning consumers, such as many users on this board, knew that the “Kobe” offering was false since it was unlikely if not impossible to source real Kobe beef. But I’m sure many people were upsold on the Kobe beef and paid quite a bit more money for a purposely mislabelled product.

[Bookwich]

Agreed. My point is the trust issue. Of course we should be informed consumers, but expecting even a sushi affacianado to know all the many, many variations of fish species, and their various marketing names is unreasonable. (Unless your are @BradFord, of course. )

[hungryhungryhippos]

I agree and that is why the onus is on restaurants and purveyors to educate the public about their offerings as opposed to labelling fish in a way that is convenient for them to either sell more fish or a particular fish for more money or a higher perceived quality due to a more recognizable, but incorrect name.

[mhlee]

You missed the point of my post. I responded to a post that mentioned that origin and species are trivial and my whole point was that it’s ludicrous to say that origin and species do not matter, which is why I went into great detail about the differences between species of fish and origin. That’s the entire problem of mislabelling, isn’t it? Being accurate about the exact type of fish being served?

But, I will say, if you care about the fish you’re eating, you should do some research. A lot of errors made by Sushi chefs are simply because they’re translating from Japanese to English. I personally translate from Japanese to English every unfamiliar fish I’m served at any Sushi bar. Some Japanese names do not have common English translations. For example, there are various “Ika”, but Ika includes both squid and cuttlefish species and some do not have common US names. I also do that so I know what it is if it’s ever served to me again and I can see if it’s both similar in color, texture, grain and taste to what I had previously, because if it’s not, then I can ask why it’s different. It’s also not that hard. #GoogleFuThatShit

[Eater15]

As I said, “Unless you’re a hardcore fish geek…”

Then he goes all hardcore fish geek on me

You can’t post anything on this site with out some quibbler quibbling

[mhlee]

Well, if you’re gonna be a self-professed harcore fish geek, you better be correct, which you weren’t.