“I can smell burning flesh … and I hope to God it’s human.”—Morrisey at Coachella in 2009
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I have to stop now. I’ll be back later. 
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While I feel the approach of these particular vegans is misguided and counterproductive, I will say that in the majority of instances it is vegans, not meat eaters, who are unfairly mocked and ridiculed for their beliefs.
I’m a meat eater, but let’s face it, any serious and unbiased analysis of the facts shows that humans’ insatiable appetite for meat is terrible for the environment (groundwater pollution, deforestation, methane gas admissions) and cruel to animals. Unless you eat meat very rarely and only from very select sources, you’re part of the problem. I include myself in this group.
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didn’t someone in this thread say something about vegans and sense of humour?
um…he’s joking, sunflower.
is there a t.v. show that DOESN’T do this?
Game of Thrones!
If you buy from sustainable ranchers, as I do, you’re part of the solution and can eat all you can afford.
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Agreed to an extent. Sustainability in the long term will require that we (humans) reduce our overall level of meat consumption since ethically raised meat simply cannot scale to meet global demand.
Also, do you dine out and, if so, do you ensure that the meat you eat at restaurants is also sustainably ranched?
surely when you watch your silly throne games, you realize
you’re seeing the writers’, directors’, actors’, etc. point of view?
Hmm, not really but nice try.
There is a difference between someone trying to inject their political or social POV into a food show vs dreamscape fiction in a fictional show.
Given recent events, seems like he isn’t that far off in his comments.
That’s not a West Bank political statement on my part. It’s simply an example of tunnel vision. We all do it at times. I saw a homeless man with a dog. My first thought was “I hope the dog will be okay.” Meanwhile…
well, i don’t know what “dreamscape fiction” is, but while i agree they are
different “types” of t.v. programs, i think we’ll just agree to disagree on this one.
your throne game t.v. program has a political and social POV, in my opinion, as does
‘blackish,’ ‘archer,’ ‘veep,’ ‘deadliest catch,’ or ‘mr. robot.’ etc.
. i maintain
you wouldn’t be a fan of a t.v. programme without any POV, and, no, i don’t mean ‘you’ personally.
but, no harm, no foul. let’s get back to vegan baiting.
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Been trying to stay out of this thready thread. Arguing one side or the other of activism is like taking sides on the multifold issues of the Middle East - it’s maddening, overwhelming, just about pointless and far more complex than two opposing views can argue before pulling in more sides. Nothing positive will come of it after the first, second or any of the other subsequent rounds of back and forth.
Each side feels righteous and unyielding in their stance. Each side willingly exploits the other’s sensitivities and weaknesses so to stand higher on their hill and wave their flag of right until the other side cuts them down. When heels dig in deeper, a harder “push” is met with a lower “shove.”
Your two posts r.e. poor animals/what humans? isn’t as misguided as you might feel. It just depends on your perspective and philosophies in life. Some religions place all forms of life on a far more level playing field. Some don’t. Those that don’t seem to embroil themselves in one conflict after another, embracing bloodlust as a way to their objectives. Life experiences may lead one down a path where concern for the lives of those who are less fortunate or for those who really don’t have a say in the course of their lives need more care, attention and sympathy.
I see the homeless multiple times every day. Probably about 10 percent have/had dogs. Your inner conflict mentioned above is mine every day. The dog really has no say in his or her placing in this situation, but most likely is content that it belongs to a “pack,” and most of these dogs appear to be adequately fed. Affection and food cover most of a dog’s needs. I’ve also seen homeless men practically tethered to their dogs, ceaselessly dragging their canine partner along with them to the point abuse and exhaustion in their endless and futile search for relief.
I’ve had several conversations with one homeless man who has a little pooch. He’s a seemingly smart guy who has his issues but loves his dog. I can tell that his dog eats better than he does. Now that he and his dog are on my consciousness as well as my conscience, I give a little to him and his dog - a few bucks for him and a handful of dog treats for his dog - hopefully both will eat okay for the day. It’s only a tiny bandaid fix for a much bigger issue, but at least I feel he and his dog will survive another day.
As for the donkey, it’s not for me to judge the PETA rep’s perspective on this issue. Many Palestinians and Israelis will go on hating and killing each other out of spite, scarcity and social inheritance. Each side trying to outplay the other. One side is comparatively resource rich, the other is not. How hard one side pushes will be met with many low shoves. Morality gets lost in all of this and those that have little or no voice end up being abused the most. Donkeys with bombs rigged to their bodies and children being brainwashed into hating others to the point where killing them - no matter by what means - is the solution.
I’m sure that PETA rep feels more than enough humans have lobbied on the side of humans involved in man-made conflicts - who speaks for other sentient beings? Intelligence is a potential gift or curse to the human animal. Kindness and empathy seem to be optional.
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Around 90% of the food I eat both at home and in restaurants is purchased direct from sustainable farmers and ranchers or through the alternative food distribution systems they use. If 10% isn’t, that’s beyond the point of diminishing returns politically, so I’m not a fanatic about it.
Maybe some peoples’ carbon footprints would be reduced by going vegan. Mine wouldn’t.
@bulavinaka - I’m really glad you wrote this. I wanted to write more. But I can be too wordy at times and I certainly didn’t want to start a political conversation. It’s one of the things I like about FTC… I don’t know anyone’s political views or prejudices.
I had actually written that the dogs and donkeys are more sympathetic because they can’t speak… and they don’t have thumbs (insert humor, but true). But I backed up and erased it. However, kids don’t have a say either. But they grow up and can assert their free-will, brainwashed or not. A dog is chained to it’s owner - for good or bad - for the rest of it’s life. You’re correct though, they are pack animals and are usually just happy to be part of the pack. I myself have had arguments with a cousin of mine about animals vs humans. She gets irritated when restaurants provide water bowls for patron’s dogs on a hot day, meanwhile there is a thirsty homeless person across the street. I tell her then go give that person some water.
While Newkirk has done some wacky things - and I will admit to thinking she is absurd and she rubs me the wrong way - societies need zealots like her. She is affecting change. Her work is probably responsible for my youngest becoming a vegetarian this year. For sure, the smaller the voice the more extreme it has to be. But just know, that is also how terrorists think. What we call terrorism, they call war. They are smaller groups and don’t have WMD’s, so they use extreme measures of fear.
Very, very true. Some, like me, probably agree with parts of the opposing argument. We’re just too intent on winning.
But, I will stand on this. The picketers sense of betrayal is justified and they have a right to protest. They should also be aware of the huge responsibility they put on themselves. Their actions have altered a family’s life and sense of well-being, possibly for generations.
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Not in the least. They made false assumptions based on their arrogant, intolerant views. The Engelharts’ motivation for opening vegan restaurants wasn’t about animal rights. It wasn’t even about food.
http://californiabountiful.com/features/article.aspx?arID=295
no porthos,
they DON’T prove his point.
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Yeah, they actually do.